[Moon-net] QRS

Bergonti, Sergio Sergio.Bergonti at lamresearch.com
Mon Nov 3 11:04:32 CET 2008


Sorry to the audience to bring up this subject again, but I do not agree
at all about the provided explanations. I think the subject requires
more thinking. Some bullets for thoughts:
 
1. The operation frequency must be taken in consideration; I have main
experience on 1296 so I am referring mainly to this freq. Other freqs
may have different behaviors thus operating practices/requirements.

2. 1296 has a well known libration fading + atmosphere fading. With many
years of operation with a small antenna, I come up with a personal
experience that tells me that the qsb has a certain 'pace'.
Transmitting at the qsb pace (some are masters at that) results in a
very degraded signal that it is very difficult/impossible at times to
understand.  Additionally some callsigns are real 'killers', those with
many dots and other long letters into it, you know what I mean.  It is
true that sometimes is better to go faster than the qsb pace but the
signal MUST have an acceptable level.

3. Operating with very low signal levels (remember small antennas) it is
sometimes INDISPENSABLE to go qrs.  It is scientific fact that, if the
signal intensity goes down the 'bit rate' has to be lowered. Okay this
is perhaps hardly applicable to manual CW but, if I have to operate with
a 20Hz wide filter due to such a low signal, with an heavy libration
fading, with an almost threshold limit signal, I can assure that I will
perhaps hear the signal but understand NOTHING if one keys 'faster'.
Much better to key at 5-8 WPM in that case, and also have a LOT of
patience; yes it is going to be boring-cw but there's going to be a qso
as a result. I do agree that a qso at 40+WPM with HB9SV or K5JL (to give
some callsigns) it is very nice but it cannot represent the standard.

4. Sometimes some station thinks: 'if I hear him well he will hear me
well'.
Not true at all. There is a number of reasons to that, true power to the
feed to name one, E layer condx etc. Maybe even CW skills but who cares,
the aim is TO HAVE A QSO.  Practically speaking there is even no reasons
to go that fast since 200+ qso per hour like on SW are out of discussion
on EME. 

Therefore: if the signal is low try to slow down. At least give it a
try!

73s Sergio IK2MMB



-----Original Message-----
From: moon-net-bounces at list-serv.davidv.net
[mailto:moon-net-bounces at list-serv.davidv.net] On Behalf Of Russ K2TXB
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:17 PM
To: moon-net at list-serv.davidv.net
Subject: Re: [Moon-net] QRS


 
I agree about sending faster to combat QSB.  There were several times
during
the contest that I wished the other station would send faster because
his
call always seemed to drop out during the last 3 letters.  Other times
libration fading would break up the individual code elements and make
good
copy very difficult.  I know we are not all good at high speeds, but
most
operators would find that they can copy better than they think, for
contest
where not much data is exchanged.  In fact I think the only time very
slow
speed is useful is when signals are very weak and conditions are fairly
stable.

Another problem is the code sending software.  We were using a program
called CwType (by UA9OV) and it worked very well.  The only problem was
that
the default code speed seems to be 100 lpm.  Every time we stopped the
program and then restarted it, it would reset itself to 100 lpm.  I
spent a
couple minutes looking through all the setup menus and could find no way
to
set the default speed.

Every time we wanted to run WSJT, the CW program had to be shut down to
eliminate the conflict on the serial port used for PTT control.  Thus we
were often getting set back to 100 lpm.  It took us a while to realize
what
was happening, probably because all our ops were comfortable at that
speed.

Perhaps the author of that program can offer a way to avoid the problem.

73, Russ K2TXB

> -----Original Message-----
> From: moon-net-bounces at list-serv.davidv.net 
> [mailto:moon-net-bounces at list-serv.davidv.net] On Behalf Of 
> D.W. Harms (fixed service)
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:31 PM
> To: 'Andreas Haefner'; moon-net at list-serv.davidv.net
> Subject: Re: [Moon-net] QRS
> 
> Andreas, during my last activity at PI9CAM I noticed that 
> most stations transmit CW at only 12-15 wpm.
> I personaly like making QRQ contacts (of course mainly on 
> HF...) at 40 wpm and up, so I was really grinding my teeth at 
> some QSO's hihi!
> But, a good CW-operator always adapts his speed to the one on 
> the other side so I did what I had to do of course. SD3F was 
> a welcome difference, tack se mucke Kalle!
> 
> Although many of us regard QRS better, when the signals are 
> very weak, I remember the comment of LZ2US when I once called 
> him on 2m EME at slow speed. Marko said that it was better to 
> send faster when QSB is severe and the signals are weak. Thus 
> taking the oppertunity at the moment the signal is slightly 
> elevated, to copy what you need. Just some food for thought.
> Marko, by the way, we still have to make that QSO....
> 
> Best 73, Dick PA2DW
> 
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: moon-net-bounces at list-serv.davidv.net
> [mailto:moon-net-bounces at list-serv.davidv.net] Namens Andreas Haefner
> Verzonden: dinsdag 28 oktober 2008 19:05
> Aan: moon-net at list-serv.davidv.net
> Onderwerp: [Moon-net] QRS
> 
> Here is a short feedback from several stations after arrl contest.
> 
> PSE QRS !
> 
> A lot of om's had problems with the cw speed. And this 
> problem increased with the number of hours without sleep.
> 
> So to all the high speed stations: please think about this at 
> a problem for a lot of stations that are not so familiar with 
> cw. 100 lpm is fast for a lot of people !
> 
> Perhaps formular could be:
> 
> CW Speed for contest = (cw speed (lpm)/ hours without sleep) + 40   
> 
> Thanks for a not 100 % serious but constructive discussion 
> for the second part and gl in november
> 
> 73s and good dx
> 
> Andreas DJ3JJ JN48js
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