30 Oct
2021
30 Oct
'21
2:49 p.m.
Hi
Where is the problem 23cm ... from 2017 until now I have been trying to
find sun noise , but unfortunately I can't find it ,
I buy a 5 meter dish with a good quality feedhorn 3 years almost daily I
try but still no gets sun's noise
Where is the problem now
I have a 2.4 meter solet dish fir 23cm I'm trying again please help get
the sun noise
Regarding
9k2ym yaser
On Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 11:11 , <moon-net-request(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
(Mario Armando Natali)
2. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
(Peter Blair)
3. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
(Vladimir)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:04:14 +0200
From: Mario Armando Natali <mario.natali(a)gmail.com>
To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt(a)hotmail.com>
Cc: Peter Blair <g3ltf(a)btinternet.com>om>, Moon-net
<moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>om>, Kurious George <
curiousgmonk(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the
last few days?
Message-ID: <E7DBB04B-431C-4F72-8F7D-F7B1C4E25E4E(a)gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Ho Bob and all,
You may try with Murmur ( http://i0naa.altervista.org/ ) that calculates
SFU for any frequency with a spline interpolation starting from NOAA data
and predicts Y-Factor noise.
The algorithms I use are less sophisticated compared to the outstanding
VK3UM work, but I found that the prediction is quite accurate and in line
with my measurements
You can also save data and so you can build history and plot data.
Mario I0NAA
Inviato da iPhone
> From: Bob Atkins via Moon-net
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 8:19 PM
> To: Moon-net ; Kurious George
Il giorno 30 ott 2021, alle ore 01:00, Bob Atkins
via Moon-net <
moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> ha scritto:
?
Hi Peter
I've found that EMECalc doesn't always seem to be able to update its SFU
numbers reliably. Maybe I'm doing it wrong (I should read the manual!). The
NOAA numbers often seem to be unavailable for many US sources. You have to
be quite careful that when you try to update you have actually updated and
when you look at the plots you have to make sure that they are for the date
you think they are for. I'm not sure what the problem is (though it may
well be me!).
With the right browser you can directly access
ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/latest/dayind.txt. It doesn't work on Chrome
or Opera (which I think no longer support ftp transfers), but it does still
work with Internet Explorer. I think this is the data that EMECalc tries to
get for the NOAA update. There's also a brief summary of the 10.7cm SFU of
the last 30 days at ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/indices/DSD.txt (IE
works, Chrome and Opera don't)
I typically look at
https://spaceweather.gc.ca/forecast-prevision/solar-solaire/solarflux/sx-4-…
for a quick the current 10.7cm solar flux. That's only a one frequency
measurement of course. The NOAA data should be for multiple frequencies
which can make an estimate of 23cm flux more accurate.
73
Bob, KA1GT
From: Peter Blair <g3ltf(a)btinternet.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 5:58 PM
To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt(a)hotmail.com>om>; Moon-net <
moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>gt;; Kurious George <curiousgmonk(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold
measurements over the last
few days?
If you use EMECalc and update the SFU you will be able to see the 1296
flux level
which is the result of extrapolation from a model derived by
VK3UM from the literature and from many sets of measurements. At this stage
of the solar cycle where we are only just lifting off the curve for the
quiet sun model a 0.5dB change in the 9cm flux value ( which is where the
quoted SF is measured) will be reflected pretty well in the 23cm flux level.
For a long time in the past 18-24 months the 9cm
value has been around
70-75 and the 23cm flux around 50-53, almost exactly what the
standard
quiet sun model predicts.
As the sun gets more active the curve of flux vs
frequency gets more
irregular ( much more so at 432) and its less easy to predict
the 23cm
value by a simple ratio of the two 9cm values, but if you use the value for
23cm from the EME calc model, after updating sfu, compared to the 23cm
value obtained from an earlier measurement that will be more accurate.
For example with the 9cm flux at around 70 the
typical 23cm flux would
be 50 and for 9cm flux of 106 the 23cm flux is 81 so thats
a 1.8dB change
in 9cm flux and a 2.1dB change in 23cm flux. There will be more variation
during a flare or when the sun gets very much more active. Incidentally, if
you do happen to catch a flare when the sun noise may be 10dB above normal,
use it to measure your sidelobe levels!
The last couple of years have been good for
collecting quiet sun data
which can be saved inside EMECalc and used as your
reference for when you
make changes.... its not too late to start doing that when the sun calms
down again.
If you are seeing less than 10dB sun noise then
you need to make a
correction for (S+N / N) in any comparisons.
> 73 Peter G3LTF
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold
measurements over the last
few days?
Today I'm seeing around 13.7dB (sun at 20 degrees elevation). That's
about
normal these days. Over the last month or so maybe an average of
around 13.5dB.
That's with a dish that should be similar in area to a dish about 3.1m
in
diameter (mine isn't quite round due to a flat spot on the bottom so it
doesn't hit things at low elevation and it's really 12 side, so it's a
truncated dudecagon!).
I think the current SFU is around 107
73
Bob, KA1GT
From: Moon-net <moon-net-bounces(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> on behalf of
Kurious
George via Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 12:44 PM
To: Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
Subject: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few
days?
Anyone have any 23cm sun to cold measurements over the last few hot sun
days?
Today I see almost 9 dB with a 1.9m f/d= 0.35 dish and RA3AQ (2008)
feed as shown in the attached photo. This is with IC-9700 set to USB-D with
3.0k Soft BW. Both NR and NB turned off. I think SFU is about 111.
Bill, KB2SA
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
30 Oct
30 Oct
5:30 p.m.
Hi Yaser,
Are you not detecting sun noise at all on either of those systems?
I turn up the volume on my radio as I slew to the sun and always hear an
increase in noise volume as the pointing arrives at the sun. If I don't I
know there is a problem - pointing, preamp not turned on, something. At
10-13 dB I hear quite a bit of noise increase, but even in a
suboptimal system you should be able to hear even 1-2 dB increase in noise
as you slew by.
To make a measurement, then you'd need some way to measure the noise volume
out of the speaker. WSJ-X has a 1 dB resolution graph on the lower left
that I use informally. There are also SDR approaches to getting "real"
measurements.
Do you have a pointing problem?
Does the system work for EME or other communications?
73 Courtney N5BF
On Sat, Oct 30, 2021 at 5:56 AM Yaser Malallah via Moon-net <
moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> wrote:
Hi
Where is the problem 23cm ... from 2017 until now I have been trying to
find sun noise , but unfortunately I can't find it ,
I buy a 5 meter dish with a good quality feedhorn 3 years almost daily I
try but still no gets sun's noise
Where is the problem now
I have a 2.4 meter solet dish fir 23cm I'm trying again please help get
the sun noise
Regarding
9k2ym yaser
On Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 11:11 , <moon-net-request(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> wrote:
> Send Moon-net mailing list submissions to
> moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman.pe1itr.com/mailman/listinfo/moon-net
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> moon-net-request(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> moon-net-owner(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Moon-net digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
> (Mario Armando Natali)
> 2. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
> (Peter Blair)
> 3. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
> (Vladimir)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:04:14 +0200
> From: Mario Armando Natali <mario.natali(a)gmail.com>
> To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt(a)hotmail.com>
> Cc: Peter Blair <g3ltf(a)btinternet.com>om>, Moon-net
> <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>om>, Kurious George <
> curiousgmonk(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the
> last few days?
> Message-ID: <E7DBB04B-431C-4F72-8F7D-F7B1C4E25E4E(a)gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Ho Bob and all,
>
> You may try with Murmur ( http://i0naa.altervista.org/ ) that calculates
> SFU for any frequency with a spline interpolation starting from NOAA data
> and predicts Y-Factor noise.
>
> The algorithms I use are less sophisticated compared to the outstanding
> VK3UM work, but I found that the prediction is quite accurate and in line
> with my measurements
>
> You can also save data and so you can build history and plot data.
>
> Mario I0NAA
>
> Inviato da iPhone
>
> > Il giorno 30 ott 2021, alle ore 01:00, Bob Atkins via Moon-net <
> moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> ha scritto:
> >
> > ?
> > Hi Peter
> >
> > I've found that EMECalc doesn't always seem to be able to update its
> SFU numbers reliably. Maybe I'm doing it wrong (I should read the manual!).
> The NOAA numbers often seem to be unavailable for many US sources. You have
> to be quite careful that when you try to update you have actually updated
> and when you look at the plots you have to make sure that they are for the
> date you think they are for. I'm not sure what the problem is (though it
> may well be me!).
> >
> > With the right browser you can directly access
> ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/latest/dayind.txt. It doesn't work on
> Chrome or Opera (which I think no longer support ftp transfers), but it
> does still work with Internet Explorer. I think this is the data that
> EMECalc tries to get for the NOAA update. There's also a brief summary of
> the 10.7cm SFU of the last 30 days at
> ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/indices/DSD.txt (IE works, Chrome and Opera
> don't)
> >
> > I typically look at
> https://spaceweather.gc.ca/forecast-prevision/solar-solaire/solarflux/sx-4-…
> for a quick the current 10.7cm solar flux. That's only a one frequency
> measurement of course. The NOAA data should be for multiple frequencies
> which can make an estimate of 23cm flux more accurate.
> >
> > 73
> > Bob, KA1GT
> >
> > From: Peter Blair <g3ltf(a)btinternet.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 5:58 PM
> > To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt(a)hotmail.com>om>; Moon-net <
> moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>gt;; Kurious George <curiousgmonk(a)gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last
> few days?
> >
> > If you use EMECalc and update the SFU you will be able to see the 1296
> flux level which is the result of extrapolation from a model derived by
> VK3UM from the literature and from many sets of measurements. At this stage
> of the solar cycle where we are only just lifting off the curve for the
> quiet sun model a 0.5dB change in the 9cm flux value ( which is where the
> quoted SF is measured) will be reflected pretty well in the 23cm flux level.
> > For a long time in the past 18-24 months the 9cm value has been around
> 70-75 and the 23cm flux around 50-53, almost exactly what the standard
> quiet sun model predicts.
> > As the sun gets more active the curve of flux vs frequency gets more
> irregular ( much more so at 432) and its less easy to predict the 23cm
> value by a simple ratio of the two 9cm values, but if you use the value for
> 23cm from the EME calc model, after updating sfu, compared to the 23cm
> value obtained from an earlier measurement that will be more accurate.
> > For example with the 9cm flux at around 70 the typical 23cm flux would
> be 50 and for 9cm flux of 106 the 23cm flux is 81 so thats a 1.8dB change
> in 9cm flux and a 2.1dB change in 23cm flux. There will be more variation
> during a flare or when the sun gets very much more active. Incidentally, if
> you do happen to catch a flare when the sun noise may be 10dB above normal,
> use it to measure your sidelobe levels!
> > The last couple of years have been good for collecting quiet sun data
> which can be saved inside EMECalc and used as your reference for when you
> make changes.... its not too late to start doing that when the sun calms
> down again.
> > If you are seeing less than 10dB sun noise then you need to make a
> correction for (S+N / N) in any comparisons.
> > 73 Peter G3LTF
> >
> >
> > From: Bob Atkins via Moon-net
> > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 8:19 PM
> > To: Moon-net ; Kurious George
> > Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last
> few days?
> >
> > Today I'm seeing around 13.7dB (sun at 20 degrees elevation). That's
> about normal these days. Over the last month or so maybe an average of
> around 13.5dB.
> >
> > That's with a dish that should be similar in area to a dish about 3.1m
> in diameter (mine isn't quite round due to a flat spot on the bottom so it
> doesn't hit things at low elevation and it's really 12 side, so it's a
> truncated dudecagon!).
> >
> > I think the current SFU is around 107
> >
> > 73
> > Bob, KA1GT
> > From: Moon-net <moon-net-bounces(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> on behalf of
> Kurious George via Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 12:44 PM
> > To: Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
> > Subject: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few
> days?
> >
> > Anyone have any 23cm sun to cold measurements over the last few hot sun
> days? Today I see almost 9 dB with a 1.9m f/d= 0.35 dish and RA3AQ (2008)
> feed as shown in the attached photo. This is with IC-9700 set to USB-D with
> 3.0k Soft BW. Both NR and NB turned off. I think SFU is about 111.
> >
> > Bill, KB2SA
> > _______________________________________________
> > Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
> http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
> http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
> >
>
5:53 p.m.
First test should be the receiver+preamp:
Attach a 50-ohm termination to input of preamp. You should see about
6-dB noise rise (you can hear that in a speaker). If that tests good
then point dish at horizon and noise should rise at least 3-dB. I point
into trees and a nearby shed which provide about 5-dB noise rise.
Next would be pointing at the Sun
hope that helps.
73, Ed - KL7UW
for precise noise measurements I use an SDR-IQ with Spectravue sw on the
28-MHz IF of my 1296 transverter; 0.2 dB resolution
On 10/30/2021 7:30 AM, Courtney Duncan via Moon-net wrote:
> Hi Yaser,
>
> Are you not detecting sun noise at all on either of those systems?
>
> I turn up the volume on my radio as I slew to the sun and always hear an
> increase in noise volume as the pointing arrives at the sun. If I don't
> I know there is a problem - pointing, preamp not turned on, something.
> At 10-13 dB I hear quite a bit of noise increase, but even in a
> suboptimal system you should be able to hear even 1-2 dB increase in
> noise as you slew by.
>
> To make a measurement, then you'd need some way to measure the noise
> volume out of the speaker. WSJ-X has a 1 dB resolution graph on the
> lower left that I use informally. There are also SDR approaches to
> getting "real" measurements.
>
> Do you have a pointing problem?
>
> Does the system work for EME or other communications?
>
> 73 Courtney N5BF
>
> On Sat, Oct 30, 2021 at 5:56 AM Yaser Malallah via Moon-net
> <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com <mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
wrote:
>
> Hi
> Where is the problem 23cm ... from 2017 until now I have been trying
> to find sun noise , but unfortunately I can't find it ,
> I buy a 5 meter dish with a good quality feedhorn 3 years almost
> daily I try but still no gets sun's noise
> Where is the problem now
> I have a 2.4 meter solet dish fir 23cm I'm trying again please help
> get the sun noise
> Regarding
> 9k2ym yaser
>
>
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 11:11 , <moon-net-request(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
> <mailto:moon-net-request@mailman.pe1itr.com>> wrote:
>
> Send Moon-net mailing list submissions to
> moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com <mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman.pe1itr.com/mailman/listinfo/moon-net
> <http://mailman.pe1itr.com/mailman/listinfo/moon-net>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> moon-net-request(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
> <mailto:moon-net-request@mailman.pe1itr.com>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> moon-net-owner(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
> <mailto:moon-net-owner@mailman.pe1itr.com>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Moon-net digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
> (Mario Armando Natali)
> 2. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
> (Peter Blair)
> 3. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
> (Vladimir)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:04:14 +0200
> From: Mario Armando Natali <mario.natali(a)gmail.com
> <mailto:mario.natali@gmail.com>>
> To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt(a)hotmail.com <mailto:ka1gt@hotmail.com>>
> Cc: Peter Blair <g3ltf(a)btinternet.com
> <mailto:g3ltf@btinternet.com>>, Moon-net
> <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
> <mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>, Kurious George
> <curiousgmonk(a)gmail.com <mailto:curiousgmonk@gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the
> last few days?
> Message-ID: <E7DBB04B-431C-4F72-8F7D-F7B1C4E25E4E(a)gmail.com
> <mailto:E7DBB04B-431C-4F72-8F7D-F7B1C4E25E4E@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Ho Bob and all,
>
> You may try with Murmur ( http://i0naa.altervista.org/
> <http://i0naa.altervista.org/> ) that calculates SFU for any
> frequency with a spline interpolation starting from NOAA data
> and predicts Y-Factor noise.
>
> The algorithms I use are less sophisticated compared to the
> outstanding VK3UM work, but I found that the prediction is
> quite accurate and in line with my measurements
>
> You can also save data and so you can build history and plot data.
>
> Mario I0NAA
>
> Inviato da iPhone
>
> > Il giorno 30 ott 2021, alle ore 01:00, Bob Atkins via
> Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
> <mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>> ha scritto:
> >
> > ?
> > Hi Peter
> >
> > I've found that EMECalc doesn't always seem to be able to
> update its SFU numbers reliably. Maybe I'm doing it wrong (I
> should read the manual!). The NOAA numbers often seem to be
> unavailable for many US sources. You have to be quite careful
> that when you try to update you have actually updated and when
> you look at the plots you have to make sure that they are for
> the date you think they are for. I'm not sure what the problem
> is (though it may well be me!).
> >
> > With the right browser you can directly access
> ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/latest/dayind.txt
> <ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/latest/dayind.txt>. It doesn't
> work on Chrome or Opera (which I think no longer support ftp
> transfers), but it does still work with Internet Explorer. I
> think this is the data that EMECalc tries to get for the NOAA
> update. There's also a brief summary of the 10.7cm SFU of the
> last 30 days at ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/indices/DSD.txt
> <ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/indices/DSD.txt> (IE works, Chrome
> and Opera don't)
> >
> > I typically look at
>
https://spaceweather.gc.ca/forecast-prevision/solar-solaire/solarflux/sx-4-…
>
<https://spaceweather.gc.ca/forecast-prevision/solar-solaire/solarflux/sx-4-en.php>
> for a quick the current 10.7cm solar flux. That's only a one
> frequency measurement of course. The NOAA data should be for
> multiple frequencies which can make an estimate of 23cm flux
> more accurate.
> >
> > 73
> > Bob, KA1GT
> >
> > From: Peter Blair <g3ltf(a)btinternet.com
> <mailto:g3ltf@btinternet.com>>
> > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 5:58 PM
> > To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt(a)hotmail.com
> <mailto:ka1gt@hotmail.com>>; Moon-net
> <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
> <mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>; Kurious George
> <curiousgmonk(a)gmail.com <mailto:curiousgmonk@gmail.com>>
> > Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements
> over the last few days?
> >
> > If you use EMECalc and update the SFU you will be able to see
> the 1296 flux level which is the result of extrapolation from a
> model derived by VK3UM from the literature and from many sets of
> measurements. At this stage of the solar cycle where we are only
> just lifting off the curve for the quiet sun model a 0.5dB
> change in the 9cm flux value ( which is where the quoted SF is
> measured) will be reflected pretty well in the 23cm flux level.
> > For a long time in the past 18-24 months the 9cm value has
> been around 70-75 and the 23cm flux around 50-53, almost exactly
> what the standard quiet sun model predicts.
> > As the sun gets more active the curve of flux vs frequency
> gets more irregular ( much more so at 432) and its less easy to
> predict the 23cm value by a simple ratio of the two 9cm values,
> but if you use the value for 23cm from the EME calc model, after
> updating sfu, compared to the 23cm value obtained from an
> earlier measurement that will be more accurate.
> > For example with the 9cm flux at around 70 the typical 23cm
> flux would be 50 and for 9cm flux of 106 the 23cm flux is 81 so
> thats a 1.8dB change in 9cm flux and a 2.1dB change in 23cm
> flux. There will be more variation during a flare or when the
> sun gets very much more active. Incidentally, if you do happen
> to catch a flare when the sun noise may be 10dB above normal,
> use it to measure your sidelobe levels!
> > The last couple of years have been good for collecting quiet
> sun data which can be saved inside EMECalc and used as your
> reference for when you make changes.... its not too late to
> start doing that when the sun calms down again.
> > If you are seeing less than 10dB sun noise then you need to
> make a correction for (S+N / N) in any comparisons.
> > 73 Peter G3LTF
> >
> >
> > From: Bob Atkins via Moon-net
> > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 8:19 PM
> > To: Moon-net ; Kurious George
> > Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements
> over the last few days?
> >
> > Today I'm seeing around 13.7dB (sun at 20 degrees elevation).
> That's about normal these days. Over the last month or so maybe
> an average of around 13.5dB.
> >
> > That's with a dish that should be similar in area to a dish
> about 3.1m in diameter (mine isn't quite round due to a flat
> spot on the bottom so it doesn't hit things at low elevation and
> it's really 12 side, so it's a truncated dudecagon!).
> >
> > I think the current SFU is around 107
> >
> > 73
> > Bob, KA1GT
> > From: Moon-net <moon-net-bounces(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
> <mailto:moon-net-bounces@mailman.pe1itr.com>> on behalf of
> Kurious George via Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
> <mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
> > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 12:44 PM
> > To: Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
> <mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
> > Subject: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over
> the last few days?
> >
> > Anyone have any 23cm sun to cold measurements over the last
> few hot sun days? Today I see almost 9 dB with a 1.9m f/d= 0.35
> dish and RA3AQ (2008) feed as shown in the attached photo. This
> is with IC-9700 set to USB-D with 3.0k Soft BW. Both NR and NB
> turned off. I think SFU is about 111.
> >
> > Bill, KB2SA
> > _______________________________________________
> > Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
> http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
> <http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
> http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
> <http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html>
> >
>
6 p.m.
It could be that the AGC is hiding the noise increase? Try turning the
AGC off...
Julian, G3YGF
On 30/10/2021 16:30, Courtney Duncan via Moon-net wrote:
Hi Yaser,
Are you not detecting sun noise at all on either of those systems?
I turn up the volume on my radio as I slew to the sun and always hear
an increase in noise volume as the pointing arrives at the sun. If I
don't I know there is a problem - pointing, preamp not turned on,
something. At 10-13 dB I hear quite a bit of noise increase, but even
in a suboptimal system you should be able to hear even 1-2 dB increase
in noise as you slew by.
To make a measurement, then you'd need some way to measure the noise
volume out of the speaker. WSJ-X has a 1 dB resolution graph on the
lower left that I use informally. There are also SDR approaches to
getting "real" measurements.
Do you have a pointing problem?
Does the system work for EME or other communications?
73 Courtney N5BF
On Sat, Oct 30, 2021 at 5:56 AM Yaser Malallah via Moon-net
<moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com <mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>> wrote:
Hi
Where is the problem 23cm ... from 2017 until now I have been
trying to find sun noise , but unfortunately I can't find it ,
I buy a 5 meter dish with a good quality feedhorn 3 years almost
daily I try but still no gets sun's noise
Where is the problem now
I have a 2.4 meter solet dish fir 23cm I'm trying again please
help get the sun noise
Regarding
9k2ym yaser
On Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 11:11 , <moon-net-request(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
<mailto:moon-net-request@mailman.pe1itr.com>> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few
days?
(Mario Armando Natali)
2. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few
days?
(Peter Blair)
3. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few
days?
(Vladimir)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:04:14 +0200
From: Mario Armando Natali <mario.natali(a)gmail.com
<mailto:mario.natali@gmail.com>>
To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt(a)hotmail.com <mailto:ka1gt@hotmail.com>>
Cc: Peter Blair <g3ltf(a)btinternet.com
<mailto:g3ltf@btinternet.com>>, Moon-net
<moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>, Kurious George
<curiousgmonk(a)gmail.com <mailto:curiousgmonk@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the
last few days?
Message-ID: <E7DBB04B-431C-4F72-8F7D-F7B1C4E25E4E(a)gmail.com
<mailto:E7DBB04B-431C-4F72-8F7D-F7B1C4E25E4E@gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Ho Bob and all,
You may try with Murmur ( http://i0naa.altervista.org/ ) that
calculates SFU for any frequency with a spline interpolation
starting from NOAA data and predicts Y-Factor noise.
The algorithms I use are less sophisticated compared to the
outstanding VK3UM work, but I found that the prediction is
quite accurate and in line with my measurements
You can also save data and so you can build history and plot data.
Mario I0NAA
Inviato da iPhone
> From: Bob Atkins via Moon-net
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 8:19 PM
> To: Moon-net ; Kurious George
Il giorno 30 ott 2021, alle ore 01:00, Bob Atkins
via
Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>> ha scritto:
?
Hi Peter
I've found that EMECalc doesn't always seem to be able to
update
its SFU numbers reliably. Maybe I'm doing it wrong (I
should read the manual!). The NOAA numbers often seem to be
unavailable for many US sources. You have to be quite careful
that when you try to update you have actually updated and when
you look at the plots you have to make sure that they are for
the date you think they are for. I'm not sure what the problem
is (though it may well be me!).
With the right browser you can directly access
ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/latest/dayind.txt. It doesn't work
on Chrome or Opera (which I think no longer support ftp
transfers), but it does still work with Internet Explorer. I
think this is the data that EMECalc tries to get for the NOAA
update. There's also a brief summary of the 10.7cm SFU of the
last 30 days at ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/indices/DSD.txt
(IE works, Chrome and Opera don't)
I typically look at
https://spaceweather.gc.ca/forecast-prevision/solar-solaire/solarflux/sx-4-…
for a quick the current 10.7cm solar flux. That's only a one
frequency measurement of course. The NOAA data should be for
multiple frequencies which can make an estimate of 23cm flux
more accurate.
73
Bob, KA1GT
From: Peter Blair <g3ltf(a)btinternet.com
<mailto:g3ltf@btinternet.com>>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 5:58 PM
To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt(a)hotmail.com
<mailto:ka1gt@hotmail.com>>;
Moon-net
<moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>; Kurious George
<curiousgmonk(a)gmail.com <mailto:curiousgmonk@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold
measurements
over the last few days?
If you use EMECalc and update the SFU you will be able to
see the 1296
flux level which is the result of extrapolation
from a model derived by VK3UM from the literature and from
many sets of measurements. At this stage of the solar cycle
where we are only just lifting off the curve for the quiet sun
model a 0.5dB change in the 9cm flux value ( which is where
the quoted SF is measured) will be reflected pretty well in
the 23cm flux level.
For a long time in the past 18-24 months the 9cm
value has
been around 70-75 and the 23cm flux around 50-53, almost
exactly what the standard quiet sun model predicts.
As the sun gets more active the curve of flux vs
frequency
gets more irregular ( much more so at 432) and its less easy
to predict the 23cm value by a simple ratio of the two 9cm
values, but if you use the value for 23cm from the EME calc
model, after updating sfu, compared to the 23cm value obtained
from an earlier measurement that will be more accurate.
For example with the 9cm flux at around 70 the
typical 23cm
flux would be 50 and for 9cm flux of 106 the 23cm flux is 81
so thats a 1.8dB change in 9cm flux and a 2.1dB change in
23cm flux. There will be more variation during a flare or when
the sun gets very much more active. Incidentally, if you do
happen to catch a flare when the sun noise may be 10dB above
normal, use it to measure your sidelobe levels!
The last couple of years have been good for
collecting
quiet sun data which can be saved inside EMECalc and used as
your reference for when you make changes.... its not too late
to start doing that when the sun calms down again.
If you are seeing less than 10dB sun noise then
you need to
make a correction for (S+N / N) in any comparisons.
> 73 Peter G3LTF
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold
measurements
over the last few days?
Today I'm seeing around 13.7dB (sun at 20 degrees
elevation).
That's about normal these days. Over the last
month or so maybe an average of around 13.5dB.
That's with a dish that should be similar in area to a dish
about 3.1m
in diameter (mine isn't quite round due to a flat
spot on the bottom so it doesn't hit things at low elevation
and it's really 12 side, so it's a truncated dudecagon!).
I think the current SFU is around 107
73
Bob, KA1GT
From: Moon-net <moon-net-bounces(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
<mailto:moon-net-bounces@mailman.pe1itr.com>> on behalf of
Kurious George via Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 12:44 PM
To: Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
Subject: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold
measurements over
the last few days?
Anyone have any 23cm sun to cold measurements over the last
few hot sun
days? Today I see almost 9 dB with a 1.9m f/d=
0.35 dish and RA3AQ (2008) feed as shown in the attached
photo. This is with IC-9700 set to USB-D with 3.0k Soft BW.
Both NR and NB turned off. I think SFU is about 111.
Bill, KB2SA
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
7:14 p.m.
On some receiving systems, the receiver is being driven too hard to hear any increase in
noise when pointed at the sun because of AGC action.
So you need to switch off AGC, turn down RF gain until you can just hear background noise.
Then move to sun. You should hear a noise increase. If you put WSJT in the echo mode,
but do not enable transmit, reading the signal strength column, you can actually measure
sun noise to one tenth db. Same procedure. Use manual gain. Turn down gain until the
signal level measurement goes down at least 10 db from the maximum gain reading. Point at
sun and see how far up it goes.
Donald E Hawbaker
WA3RGQ
________________________________
From: Moon-net <moon-net-bounces(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> on behalf of Courtney Duncan
via Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2021 11:30:42 AM
To: Yaser Malallah <9k2ym(a)9k2ym.co>
Cc: moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Where is the problem 23cm
Hi Yaser,
Are you not detecting sun noise at all on either of those systems?
I turn up the volume on my radio as I slew to the sun and always hear an increase in noise
volume as the pointing arrives at the sun. If I don't I know there is a problem -
pointing, preamp not turned on, something. At 10-13 dB I hear quite a bit of noise
increase, but even in a suboptimal system you should be able to hear even 1-2 dB increase
in noise as you slew by.
To make a measurement, then you'd need some way to measure the noise volume out of the
speaker. WSJ-X has a 1 dB resolution graph on the lower left that I use informally.
There are also SDR approaches to getting "real" measurements.
Do you have a pointing problem?
Does the system work for EME or other communications?
73 Courtney N5BF
On Sat, Oct 30, 2021 at 5:56 AM Yaser Malallah via Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>> wrote:
Hi
Where is the problem 23cm ... from 2017 until now I have been trying to find sun noise ,
but unfortunately I can't find it ,
I buy a 5 meter dish with a good quality feedhorn 3 years almost daily I try but still no
gets sun's noise
Where is the problem now
I have a 2.4 meter solet dish fir 23cm I'm trying again please help get the sun
noise
Regarding
9k2ym yaser
On Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 11:11 ,
<moon-net-request@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net-request@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
wrote:
Send Moon-net mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Moon-net digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
(Mario Armando Natali)
2. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
(Peter Blair)
3. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
(Vladimir)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:04:14 +0200
From: Mario Armando Natali
<mario.natali@gmail.com<mailto:mario.natali@gmail.com>>
To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt@hotmail.com<mailto:ka1gt@hotmail.com>>
Cc: Peter Blair <g3ltf@btinternet.com<mailto:g3ltf@btinternet.com>>, Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>,
Kurious George <curiousgmonk@gmail.com<mailto:curiousgmonk@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the
last few days?
Message-ID:
<E7DBB04B-431C-4F72-8F7D-F7B1C4E25E4E@gmail.com<mailto:E7DBB04B-431C-4F72-8F7D-F7B1C4E25E4E@gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Ho Bob and all,
You may try with Murmur ( http://i0naa.altervista.org/ ) that calculates SFU for any
frequency with a spline interpolation starting from NOAA data and predicts Y-Factor
noise.
The algorithms I use are less sophisticated compared to the outstanding VK3UM work, but I
found that the prediction is quite accurate and in line with my measurements
You can also save data and so you can build history and plot data.
Mario I0NAA
Inviato da iPhone
Il giorno 30 ott 2021, alle ore 01:00, Bob Atkins via
Moon-net <moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>> ha
scritto:
?
Hi Peter
I've found that EMECalc doesn't always seem to be able to update its SFU numbers
reliably. Maybe I'm doing it wrong (I should read the manual!). The NOAA numbers often
seem to be unavailable for many US sources. You have to be quite careful that when you try
to update you have actually updated and when you look at the plots you have to make sure
that they are for the date you think they are for. I'm not sure what the problem is
(though it may well be me!).
With the right browser you can directly access
ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/latest/dayind.txt. It doesn't work on Chrome or Opera
(which I think no longer support ftp transfers), but it does still work with Internet
Explorer. I think this is the data that EMECalc tries to get for the NOAA update.
There's also a brief summary of the 10.7cm SFU of the last 30 days at
ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/indices/DSD.txt (IE works, Chrome and Opera don't)
I typically look at
https://spaceweather.gc.ca/forecast-prevision/solar-solaire/solarflux/sx-4-… for a
quick the current 10.7cm solar flux. That's only a one frequency measurement of
course. The NOAA data should be for multiple frequencies which can make an estimate of
23cm flux more accurate.
73
Bob, KA1GT
From: Peter Blair <g3ltf@btinternet.com<mailto:g3ltf@btinternet.com>>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 5:58 PM
To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt@hotmail.com<mailto:ka1gt@hotmail.com>>; Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>; Kurious
George <curiousgmonk@gmail.com<mailto:curiousgmonk@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
If you use EMECalc and update the SFU you will be able to see the 1296 flux level which
is the result of extrapolation from a model derived by VK3UM from the literature and from
many sets of measurements. At this stage of the solar cycle where we are only just lifting
off the curve for the quiet sun model a 0.5dB change in the 9cm flux value ( which is
where the quoted SF is measured) will be reflected pretty well in the 23cm flux level.
For a long time in the past 18-24 months the 9cm value has been around 70-75 and the 23cm
flux around 50-53, almost exactly what the standard quiet sun model predicts.
As the sun gets more active the curve of flux vs frequency gets more irregular ( much
more so at 432) and its less easy to predict the 23cm value by a simple ratio of the two
9cm values, but if you use the value for 23cm from the EME calc model, after updating sfu,
compared to the 23cm value obtained from an earlier measurement that will be more
accurate.
For example with the 9cm flux at around 70 the typical 23cm flux would be 50 and for 9cm
flux of 106 the 23cm flux is 81 so thats a 1.8dB change in 9cm flux and a 2.1dB change
in 23cm flux. There will be more variation during a flare or when the sun gets very much
more active. Incidentally, if you do happen to catch a flare when the sun noise may be
10dB above normal, use it to measure your sidelobe levels!
The last couple of years have been good for collecting quiet sun data which can be saved
inside EMECalc and used as your reference for when you make changes.... its not too late
to start doing that when the sun calms down again.
If you are seeing less than 10dB sun noise then you need to make a correction for (S+N /
N) in any comparisons.
73 Peter G3LTF
From: Bob Atkins via Moon-net
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 8:19 PM
To: Moon-net ; Kurious George
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
Today I'm seeing around 13.7dB (sun at 20 degrees elevation). That's about normal
these days. Over the last month or so maybe an average of around 13.5dB.
That's with a dish that should be similar in area to a dish about 3.1m in diameter
(mine isn't quite round due to a flat spot on the bottom so it doesn't hit things
at low elevation and it's really 12 side, so it's a truncated dudecagon!).
I think the current SFU is around 107
73
Bob, KA1GT
From: Moon-net
<moon-net-bounces@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net-bounces@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
on behalf of Kurious George via Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 12:44 PM
To: Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
Subject: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
Anyone have any 23cm sun to cold measurements over the last few hot sun days? Today I see
almost 9 dB with a 1.9m f/d= 0.35 dish and RA3AQ (2008) feed as shown in the attached
photo. This is with IC-9700 set to USB-D with 3.0k Soft BW. Both NR and NB turned off. I
think SFU is about 111.
Bill, KB2SA
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
10:44 p.m.
You might want to take a look at https://bobatkins.com/radio/sun_noise_measurement.html
As others have said, you must turn AGC OFF or any increase in noise may be cancelled out
by the AGC system.
If AGC is off an you see no sun noise, either you have a receiver problem of an antenna
pointing problem or you are not measuring the receiver audio output noise correctly. If
you see no difference in noise between when the antenna is pointing at high elevation and
when it's pointing down at the ground (or at least at 0 degrees elevation), then you
have a receiver problem or a measurement problem. You would expect to see at least a 4dB
difference and possibly as much as an 8dB difference. Similarly, if you switch your premap
between the antenna at high elevation and a 50 Ohm load, you should see something between
6dB and 8dB more noise on the 50 ohm load. You can easily hear the difference. If you
don't hear any difference and don't measure any difference, your preamp is
probably dead.
If you do see a noise difference with one of these tests, then if you don't see sun
noise you are not pointed at the sun! If you have a typical prime focus dish, you can tell
when you are pointing at the sun because the shadow of the feed will be in the center of
the dish.
If you can hear EME stations but don't see any sun noise (with AGC off), then you
can't be doing the measurement properly. A vert simple way to do the measurment if you
are using WSJTX is to go into "Echo" mode and look at the the "Level"
column. This will be a noise reading in dB
[cid:190ae3c0-4a62-425c-b409-a7ff9447e157]
The number when you are pointing at the sun (or at the ground) should be higher than when
you are pointing at cold sky.
Hope this helps,
73
Bob, KA1GT
________________________________
From: Moon-net <moon-net-bounces(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> on behalf of Don Hawbaker via
Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2021 1:14 PM
To: Courtney Duncan <courtney.duncan.n5bf(a)gmail.com>om>; Yaser Malallah
<9k2ym(a)9k2ym.co>
Cc: moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Where is the problem 23cm
On some receiving systems, the receiver is being driven too hard to hear any increase in
noise when pointed at the sun because of AGC action.
So you need to switch off AGC, turn down RF gain until you can just hear background noise.
Then move to sun. You should hear a noise increase. If you put WSJT in the echo mode,
but do not enable transmit, reading the signal strength column, you can actually measure
sun noise to one tenth db. Same procedure. Use manual gain. Turn down gain until the
signal level measurement goes down at least 10 db from the maximum gain reading. Point at
sun and see how far up it goes.
Donald E Hawbaker
WA3RGQ
________________________________
From: Moon-net <moon-net-bounces(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> on behalf of Courtney Duncan
via Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2021 11:30:42 AM
To: Yaser Malallah <9k2ym(a)9k2ym.co>
Cc: moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Where is the problem 23cm
Hi Yaser,
Are you not detecting sun noise at all on either of those systems?
I turn up the volume on my radio as I slew to the sun and always hear an increase in noise
volume as the pointing arrives at the sun. If I don't I know there is a problem -
pointing, preamp not turned on, something. At 10-13 dB I hear quite a bit of noise
increase, but even in a suboptimal system you should be able to hear even 1-2 dB increase
in noise as you slew by.
To make a measurement, then you'd need some way to measure the noise volume out of the
speaker. WSJ-X has a 1 dB resolution graph on the lower left that I use informally.
There are also SDR approaches to getting "real" measurements.
Do you have a pointing problem?
Does the system work for EME or other communications?
73 Courtney N5BF
On Sat, Oct 30, 2021 at 5:56 AM Yaser Malallah via Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>> wrote:
Hi
Where is the problem 23cm ... from 2017 until now I have been trying to find sun noise ,
but unfortunately I can't find it ,
I buy a 5 meter dish with a good quality feedhorn 3 years almost daily I try but still no
gets sun's noise
Where is the problem now
I have a 2.4 meter solet dish fir 23cm I'm trying again please help get the sun
noise
Regarding
9k2ym yaser
On Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 11:11 ,
<moon-net-request@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net-request@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
(Mario Armando Natali)
2. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
(Peter Blair)
3. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
(Vladimir)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:04:14 +0200
From: Mario Armando Natali
<mario.natali@gmail.com<mailto:mario.natali@gmail.com>>
To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt@hotmail.com<mailto:ka1gt@hotmail.com>>
Cc: Peter Blair <g3ltf@btinternet.com<mailto:g3ltf@btinternet.com>>, Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>,
Kurious George <curiousgmonk@gmail.com<mailto:curiousgmonk@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the
last few days?
Message-ID:
<E7DBB04B-431C-4F72-8F7D-F7B1C4E25E4E@gmail.com<mailto:E7DBB04B-431C-4F72-8F7D-F7B1C4E25E4E@gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Ho Bob and all,
You may try with Murmur ( http://i0naa.altervista.org/ ) that calculates SFU for any
frequency with a spline interpolation starting from NOAA data and predicts Y-Factor
noise.
The algorithms I use are less sophisticated compared to the outstanding VK3UM work, but I
found that the prediction is quite accurate and in line with my measurements
You can also save data and so you can build history and plot data.
Mario I0NAA
Inviato da iPhone
Il giorno 30 ott 2021, alle ore 01:00, Bob Atkins via
Moon-net <moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>> ha
scritto:
?
Hi Peter
I've found that EMECalc doesn't always seem to be able to update its SFU numbers
reliably. Maybe I'm doing it wrong (I should read the manual!). The NOAA numbers often
seem to be unavailable for many US sources. You have to be quite careful that when you try
to update you have actually updated and when you look at the plots you have to make sure
that they are for the date you think they are for. I'm not sure what the problem is
(though it may well be me!).
With the right browser you can directly access
ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/latest/dayind.txt. It doesn't work on Chrome or Opera
(which I think no longer support ftp transfers), but it does still work with Internet
Explorer. I think this is the data that EMECalc tries to get for the NOAA update.
There's also a brief summary of the 10.7cm SFU of the last 30 days at
ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/indices/DSD.txt (IE works, Chrome and Opera don't)
I typically look at
https://spaceweather.gc.ca/forecast-prevision/solar-solaire/solarflux/sx-4-… for a
quick the current 10.7cm solar flux. That's only a one frequency measurement of
course. The NOAA data should be for multiple frequencies which can make an estimate of
23cm flux more accurate.
73
Bob, KA1GT
From: Peter Blair <g3ltf@btinternet.com<mailto:g3ltf@btinternet.com>>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 5:58 PM
To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt@hotmail.com<mailto:ka1gt@hotmail.com>>; Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>; Kurious
George <curiousgmonk@gmail.com<mailto:curiousgmonk@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
If you use EMECalc and update the SFU you will be able to see the 1296 flux level which
is the result of extrapolation from a model derived by VK3UM from the literature and from
many sets of measurements. At this stage of the solar cycle where we are only just lifting
off the curve for the quiet sun model a 0.5dB change in the 9cm flux value ( which is
where the quoted SF is measured) will be reflected pretty well in the 23cm flux level.
For a long time in the past 18-24 months the 9cm value has been around 70-75 and the 23cm
flux around 50-53, almost exactly what the standard quiet sun model predicts.
As the sun gets more active the curve of flux vs frequency gets more irregular ( much
more so at 432) and its less easy to predict the 23cm value by a simple ratio of the two
9cm values, but if you use the value for 23cm from the EME calc model, after updating sfu,
compared to the 23cm value obtained from an earlier measurement that will be more
accurate.
For example with the 9cm flux at around 70 the typical 23cm flux would be 50 and for 9cm
flux of 106 the 23cm flux is 81 so thats a 1.8dB change in 9cm flux and a 2.1dB change
in 23cm flux. There will be more variation during a flare or when the sun gets very much
more active. Incidentally, if you do happen to catch a flare when the sun noise may be
10dB above normal, use it to measure your sidelobe levels!
The last couple of years have been good for collecting quiet sun data which can be saved
inside EMECalc and used as your reference for when you make changes.... its not too late
to start doing that when the sun calms down again.
If you are seeing less than 10dB sun noise then you need to make a correction for (S+N /
N) in any comparisons.
73 Peter G3LTF
From: Bob Atkins via Moon-net
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 8:19 PM
To: Moon-net ; Kurious George
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
Today I'm seeing around 13.7dB (sun at 20 degrees elevation). That's about normal
these days. Over the last month or so maybe an average of around 13.5dB.
That's with a dish that should be similar in area to a dish about 3.1m in diameter
(mine isn't quite round due to a flat spot on the bottom so it doesn't hit things
at low elevation and it's really 12 side, so it's a truncated dudecagon!).
I think the current SFU is around 107
73
Bob, KA1GT
From: Moon-net
<moon-net-bounces@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net-bounces@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
on behalf of Kurious George via Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 12:44 PM
To: Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
Subject: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
Anyone have any 23cm sun to cold measurements over the last few hot sun days? Today I see
almost 9 dB with a 1.9m f/d= 0.35 dish and RA3AQ (2008) feed as shown in the attached
photo. This is with IC-9700 set to USB-D with 3.0k Soft BW. Both NR and NB turned off. I
think SFU is about 111.
Bill, KB2SA
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
5:51 p.m.
Let's start in the beginning. What is your receiver? Are you using a transverter?
What is your LNA?
How are you measuring sun noise? What kind of indicator?
Donald E Hawbaker
WA3RGQ
________________________________
From: Moon-net <moon-net-bounces(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> on behalf of Yaser Malallah via
Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2021 8:49:43 AM
To: moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
Subject: [Moon-Net] Where is the problem 23cm
Hi
Where is the problem 23cm ... from 2017 until now I have been trying to find sun noise ,
but unfortunately I can't find it ,
I buy a 5 meter dish with a good quality feedhorn 3 years almost daily I try but still no
gets sun's noise
Where is the problem now
I have a 2.4 meter solet dish fir 23cm I'm trying again please help get the sun
noise
Regarding
9k2ym yaser
On Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 11:11 ,
<moon-net-request@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net-request@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Moon-net digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
(Mario Armando Natali)
2. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
(Peter Blair)
3. Re: Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
(Vladimir)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:04:14 +0200
From: Mario Armando Natali
<mario.natali@gmail.com<mailto:mario.natali@gmail.com>>
To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt@hotmail.com<mailto:ka1gt@hotmail.com>>
Cc: Peter Blair <g3ltf@btinternet.com<mailto:g3ltf@btinternet.com>>, Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>,
Kurious George <curiousgmonk@gmail.com<mailto:curiousgmonk@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the
last few days?
Message-ID:
<E7DBB04B-431C-4F72-8F7D-F7B1C4E25E4E@gmail.com<mailto:E7DBB04B-431C-4F72-8F7D-F7B1C4E25E4E@gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Ho Bob and all,
You may try with Murmur ( http://i0naa.altervista.org/ ) that calculates SFU for any
frequency with a spline interpolation starting from NOAA data and predicts Y-Factor
noise.
The algorithms I use are less sophisticated compared to the outstanding VK3UM work, but I
found that the prediction is quite accurate and in line with my measurements
You can also save data and so you can build history and plot data.
Mario I0NAA
Inviato da iPhone
Il giorno 30 ott 2021, alle ore 01:00, Bob Atkins via
Moon-net <moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>> ha
scritto:
?
Hi Peter
I've found that EMECalc doesn't always seem to be able to update its SFU numbers
reliably. Maybe I'm doing it wrong (I should read the manual!). The NOAA numbers often
seem to be unavailable for many US sources. You have to be quite careful that when you try
to update you have actually updated and when you look at the plots you have to make sure
that they are for the date you think they are for. I'm not sure what the problem is
(though it may well be me!).
With the right browser you can directly access
ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/latest/dayind.txt. It doesn't work on Chrome or Opera
(which I think no longer support ftp transfers), but it does still work with Internet
Explorer. I think this is the data that EMECalc tries to get for the NOAA update.
There's also a brief summary of the 10.7cm SFU of the last 30 days at
ftp://ftp.swpc.noaa.gov/pub/indices/DSD.txt (IE works, Chrome and Opera don't)
I typically look at
https://spaceweather.gc.ca/forecast-prevision/solar-solaire/solarflux/sx-4-… for a
quick the current 10.7cm solar flux. That's only a one frequency measurement of
course. The NOAA data should be for multiple frequencies which can make an estimate of
23cm flux more accurate.
73
Bob, KA1GT
From: Peter Blair <g3ltf@btinternet.com<mailto:g3ltf@btinternet.com>>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 5:58 PM
To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt@hotmail.com<mailto:ka1gt@hotmail.com>>; Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>; Kurious
George <curiousgmonk@gmail.com<mailto:curiousgmonk@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
If you use EMECalc and update the SFU you will be able to see the 1296 flux level which
is the result of extrapolation from a model derived by VK3UM from the literature and from
many sets of measurements. At this stage of the solar cycle where we are only just lifting
off the curve for the quiet sun model a 0.5dB change in the 9cm flux value ( which is
where the quoted SF is measured) will be reflected pretty well in the 23cm flux level.
For a long time in the past 18-24 months the 9cm value has been around 70-75 and the 23cm
flux around 50-53, almost exactly what the standard quiet sun model predicts.
As the sun gets more active the curve of flux vs frequency gets more irregular ( much
more so at 432) and its less easy to predict the 23cm value by a simple ratio of the two
9cm values, but if you use the value for 23cm from the EME calc model, after updating sfu,
compared to the 23cm value obtained from an earlier measurement that will be more
accurate.
For example with the 9cm flux at around 70 the typical 23cm flux would be 50 and for 9cm
flux of 106 the 23cm flux is 81 so thats a 1.8dB change in 9cm flux and a 2.1dB change
in 23cm flux. There will be more variation during a flare or when the sun gets very much
more active. Incidentally, if you do happen to catch a flare when the sun noise may be
10dB above normal, use it to measure your sidelobe levels!
The last couple of years have been good for collecting quiet sun data which can be saved
inside EMECalc and used as your reference for when you make changes.... its not too late
to start doing that when the sun calms down again.
If you are seeing less than 10dB sun noise then you need to make a correction for (S+N /
N) in any comparisons.
73 Peter G3LTF
From: Bob Atkins via Moon-net
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 8:19 PM
To: Moon-net ; Kurious George
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
Today I'm seeing around 13.7dB (sun at 20 degrees elevation). That's about normal
these days. Over the last month or so maybe an average of around 13.5dB.
That's with a dish that should be similar in area to a dish about 3.1m in diameter
(mine isn't quite round due to a flat spot on the bottom so it doesn't hit things
at low elevation and it's really 12 side, so it's a truncated dudecagon!).
I think the current SFU is around 107
73
Bob, KA1GT
From: Moon-net
<moon-net-bounces@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net-bounces@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
on behalf of Kurious George via Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 12:44 PM
To: Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
Subject: [Moon-Net] Any 23cm Sun to Cold measurements over the last few days?
Anyone have any 23cm sun to cold measurements over the last few hot sun days? Today I see
almost 9 dB with a 1.9m f/d= 0.35 dish and RA3AQ (2008) feed as shown in the attached
photo. This is with IC-9700 set to USB-D with 3.0k Soft BW. Both NR and NB turned off. I
think SFU is about 111.
Bill, KB2SA
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
586
days inactive
586
days old
6 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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Bob Atkins -
Courtney Duncan -
Don Hawbaker -
Ed Cole -
Julian -
Yaser Malallah