23 May
2021
23 May
'21
4:39 p.m.
Hello all,
I have a few 2M EME station items for sale.
4) Innovantennas 10 element LFA yagis, complete with 4 port power divider,
phasing cables and chokes. All items purchased from Justin at Innovantennas
approx 3 yrs ago.
Complete package shipped in the CONUS $1000.....
2 port power divider from Innovantennas $50
Q5 Signal (previously DEMI) L144-28HP 28Mhz to 2M transverter (-20dbm to 60
watts) $400
Serial #755, All documentation included
Thanks
Steve NA5C
SRMuenich(a)gmail.com
7 Aug
7 Aug
6:18 p.m.
New subject: Sun noise optimization + Septum feed ports
Hello all,
I have complete the build of a rfhamdesign 1,90m mesh dish + septum feed
and try to optimize my sun noise because signals received from Moon are
not so high than expected. Sun noise that I can measure is only +4.5/5
dB at Sun from quiet sky part.
Discussing on HB9Q chat, EME experts says me that I should find around 7
dB sun noise. Well, OK, but my question is how ? I have optimized focal
distance with sun noise, az/el position with sun noise and sun shadow.
What can I do more/bad ? Do you have any advice/different method to
optimize sun noise reception?
LNA + relay + coaxial line have been VNA controlled and changed with
spare parts but I can't see any change. I have attached pictures/diagram
of my setup.
I also have noticed only 6/7 dB of difference between LHCP + LNA and
RHCP port on Moon signals.
I also have a +14 dB difference with LNA/Relay ON or OFF off noise floor
(and same with RHCP port).
If you have any idea, please tell me, thank you!
73, Burt FG8OJ
9 Aug
9 Aug
10:02 a.m.
New subject: Sun noise optimization + Septum feed ports
I would eliminate all the relays and test straight through to see what that reading
is.
Then start working back to your original configuration one step at a time.
From your diagram, it is unclear to me how your are measuring sun noise. I don’t see
the connections. Do you have a second method?
On Aug 9, 2021 at 8:55 AM, <Burt FG8OJ via Moon-net
(mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com)> wrote:
Hello all,
I have complete the build of a rfhamdesign 1,90m mesh dish + septum feed and try to
optimize my sun noise because signals received from Moon are not so high than expected.
Sun noise that I can measure is only +4.5/5 dB at Sun from quiet sky part.
Discussing on HB9Q chat, EME experts says me that I should find around 7 dB sun noise.
Well, OK, but my question is how ? I have optimized focal distance with sun noise, az/el
position with sun noise and sun shadow. What can I do more/bad ? Do you have any
advice/different method to optimize sun noise reception?
LNA + relay + coaxial line have been VNA controlled and changed with spare parts but I
can't see any change. I have attached pictures/diagram of my setup.
I also have noticed only 6/7 dB of difference between LHCP + LNA and RHCP port on Moon
signals.
I also have a +14 dB difference with LNA/Relay ON or OFF off noise floor (and same with
RHCP port).
If you have any idea, please tell me, thank you!
73, Burt FG8OJ
10:17 a.m.
New subject: Sun noise optimization + Septum feed ports
Hi Burt,
I have the same system. I believe that square feed is picking up "extra"
ground noise due to its imperfect pattern. The extra "ground noise
sidelobes" are very noticeable on a 1.9m dish.
I eventually modified mine to an RA3AQ (2008) design shown in the attached
image. With this my sun to cold sky went from about 4 dB to 7 dB.
http://www.ok1dfc.com/eme/technic/septum/ra3aqfeed_sim_w1ghz.pdf
I'm currently working on a new N2UO feed which I believe may yield almost 9
dB sun to cold sky with a 1.9m dish.
Bill, KB2SA
On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 5:46 AM Burt FG8OJ via Moon-net <
moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> wrote:
Hello all,
I have complete the build of a rfhamdesign 1,90m mesh dish + septum feed
and try to optimize my sun noise because signals received from Moon are not
so high than expected. Sun noise that I can measure is only +4.5/5 dB at
Sun from quiet sky part.
Discussing on HB9Q chat, EME experts says me that I should find around 7
dB sun noise. Well, OK, but my question is how ? I have optimized focal
distance with sun noise, az/el position with sun noise and sun shadow. What
can I do more/bad ? Do you have any advice/different method to optimize sun
noise reception?
LNA + relay + coaxial line have been VNA controlled and changed with spare
parts but I can't see any change. I have attached pictures/diagram of my
setup.
I also have noticed only 6/7 dB of difference between LHCP + LNA and RHCP
port on Moon signals.
I also have a +14 dB difference with LNA/Relay ON or OFF off noise floor
(and same with RHCP port).
If you have any idea, please tell me, thank you!
73, Burt FG8OJ
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
10:47 a.m.
New subject: Sun noise optimization + Septum feed ports
Burt,
You are using Spectravue at a rather high level and you may well be getting compression
somewhere. I cant see from your drawing where you are taking that from but in my set up
with an SDR IQ off my IF at 14MHz I find it better to run Spectravue with the cold sky
level at about 45-50dB.
It is also better to set Smoothing to 10 or 15 and FFT number to 5, makes it easier to see
the levels.
If you have compression not only does it produce a lower reading but it makes it more
difficult to see small changes when you alter things.
When you adjusted the feed position in the dish did you check sun noise at every 2 or 3 cm
and get a nice smooth curve with a peak?
GL 73 Peter G3LTF
From: Burt FG8OJ via Moon-net
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2021 11:18 PM
To: moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
Subject: [Moon-Net] Sun noise optimization + Septum feed ports
Hello all,
I have complete the build of a rfhamdesign 1,90m mesh dish + septum feed and try to
optimize my sun noise because signals received from Moon are not so high than expected.
Sun noise that I can measure is only +4.5/5 dB at Sun from quiet sky part.
Discussing on HB9Q chat, EME experts says me that I should find around 7 dB sun noise.
Well, OK, but my question is how ? I have optimized focal distance with sun noise, az/el
position with sun noise and sun shadow. What can I do more/bad ? Do you have any
advice/different method to optimize sun noise reception?
LNA + relay + coaxial line have been VNA controlled and changed with spare parts but I
can't see any change. I have attached pictures/diagram of my setup.
I also have noticed only 6/7 dB of difference between LHCP + LNA and RHCP port on Moon
signals.
I also have a +14 dB difference with LNA/Relay ON or OFF off noise floor (and same with
RHCP port).
If you have any idea, please tell me, thank you!
73, Burt FG8OJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
12:11 p.m.
New subject: Sun noise optimization + Septum feed ports
Many thanks for you help !
I was pretty sure that it was an manufacturer error on sticker and I
switch ports and I can receive a lot of stations now. I will work again
to optimize sun/noise with all you advices. It is wonderfull to have
your answers because I am alone on this part of the world playing on 23cm :)
I really appreciate, thank you soo much!
Best 73, Burt FG8OJ
12 Aug
12 Aug
10:43 a.m.
New subject: small issues with WSJT-X
I am progressing along fine in getting the new Q65 mode to work and have a few
contacts, so looks good so far. Just a couple nagging questions.
I use Dimension 4 for my time clock updater/syncer but the DT is always 2.x. D4
says sync and usually .004x off
Also I have noticed that the AZ/EL in the Astron Data window is out maybe 5
degrees sometimes in comparison to my tracking program. In the WSJT-10 it was
always within 1 degree or less. I am using Orbitron software as it seems to cause
less headaches with the SPID.
In the Wide Graph Display, the Q65 sync display at the bottom I have seen some
others captures that it is a straight line with vertical points where mine is a
waveform type display. Cant figure out the settings to get the line type.
any suggestions welcome .......
--
Bill Booth VE3NXK
Sundridge ON, Canada
79.23.37 W x 45.46.18 N
FN05ns
Visit my weather WebCam at http://www.almaguin.com/wxcurrent/weather.html
Organ and Tissue Donation - The Gift of Life
Talk to your family. Your decision can make a difference.
10:52 a.m.
New subject: small issues with WSJT-X
On 12/08/2021 15:43, Bill Booth via Moon-net wrote:
I am progressing along fine in getting the new Q65
mode to work and
have a few contacts, so looks good so far. Just a couple nagging
questions.
I use Dimension 4 for my time clock updater/syncer but the DT is
always 2.x. D4 says sync and usually .004x off
Also I have noticed that the AZ/EL in the Astron Data window is out
maybe 5 degrees sometimes in comparison to my tracking program. In
the WSJT-10 it was always within 1 degree or less. I am using
Orbitron software as it seems to cause less headaches with the SPID.
In the Wide Graph Display, the Q65 sync display at the bottom I have
seen some others captures that it is a straight line with vertical
points where mine is a waveform type display. Cant figure out the
settings to get the line type.
any suggestions welcome .......
--
Bill Booth VE3NXK
Hi Bill,
DT values of the order of 2.4 S are normal for the EME path, that's how
long the propagation delay is.
The astronomical data uses the same calculations as WSJT, do you have
your 6-character grid locator entered in "Settings->General"?
The Q65 Sync spectrum plot should display a sharp spike at the sync tone
frequency of weak Q65 signals. Stronger signals may show a more messy
plot, but they are easily visible on the WF anyway.
73
Bill
G4WJS.
11:02 a.m.
New subject: small issues with WSJT-X
Hi Bill,
Check this reference to help flatten your spectrum...
http://www.bobatkins.com/radio/wsjtx_wide_graph.html
Be sure you have your exact lat and long entered into Orbitron.
Bill, KB2SA
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 7:56 AM Bill Somerville via Moon-net <
moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> wrote:
On 12/08/2021 15:43, Bill Booth via Moon-net wrote:
I am progressing along fine in getting the new
Q65 mode to work and
have a few contacts, so looks good so far. Just a couple nagging
questions.
I use Dimension 4 for my time clock updater/syncer but the DT is
always 2.x. D4 says sync and usually .004x off
Also I have noticed that the AZ/EL in the Astron Data window is out
maybe 5 degrees sometimes in comparison to my tracking program. In
the WSJT-10 it was always within 1 degree or less. I am using
Orbitron software as it seems to cause less headaches with the SPID.
In the Wide Graph Display, the Q65 sync display at the bottom I have
seen some others captures that it is a straight line with vertical
points where mine is a waveform type display. Cant figure out the
settings to get the line type.
any suggestions welcome .......
--
Bill Booth VE3NXK
Hi Bill,
DT values of the order of 2.4 S are normal for the EME path, that's how
long the propagation delay is.
The astronomical data uses the same calculations as WSJT, do you have
your 6-character grid locator entered in "Settings->General"?
The Q65 Sync spectrum plot should display a sharp spike at the sync tone
frequency of weak Q65 signals. Stronger signals may show a more messy
plot, but they are easily visible on the WF anyway.
73
Bill
G4WJS.
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
4:35 p.m.
New subject: small issues with WSJT-X
Note that I've just updated https://bobatkins.com/radio/WSJTX_flatten.html with some
new data and observations. I need to further update both that page and the wide graph
optimization page with some Q65 signals from 1296 and 10Ghz. That will come later.
Flattening in WSJT-XC - Bob Atkins -
KA1GT<https://bobatkins.com/radio/WSJTX_flatten.html>
Flattening the Rx audio spectrum in WSJT-X. There extensive coverage of the WSJT-X Wide
Graph display, which shows a spectral plot and waterfall display of received signals, Tiy
can find that at WSJT-X Wide Graph (waterfall) optimization.The points covered on this
page are also covered there to some degree, but this page is focused on the effects of the
"flattening" method used for the Wide ...
bobatkins.com
73
Bob, KA1GT
________________________________
From: Moon-net <moon-net-bounces(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> on behalf of Kurious George via
Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 11:02 AM
To: Bill Somerville <g4wjs(a)classdesign.com>
Cc: Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] small issues with WSJT-X
Hi Bill,
Check this reference to help flatten your spectrum...
http://www.bobatkins.com/radio/wsjtx_wide_graph.html
Be sure you have your exact lat and long entered into Orbitron.
Bill, KB2SA
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 7:56 AM Bill Somerville via Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>> wrote:
On 12/08/2021 15:43, Bill Booth via Moon-net wrote:
I am progressing along fine in getting the new Q65
mode to work and
have a few contacts, so looks good so far. Just a couple nagging
questions.
I use Dimension 4 for my time clock updater/syncer but the DT is
always 2.x. D4 says sync and usually .004x off
Also I have noticed that the AZ/EL in the Astron Data window is out
maybe 5 degrees sometimes in comparison to my tracking program. In
the WSJT-10 it was always within 1 degree or less. I am using
Orbitron software as it seems to cause less headaches with the SPID.
In the Wide Graph Display, the Q65 sync display at the bottom I have
seen some others captures that it is a straight line with vertical
points where mine is a waveform type display. Cant figure out the
settings to get the line type.
any suggestions welcome .......
--
Bill Booth VE3NXK
Hi Bill,
DT values of the order of 2.4 S are normal for the EME path, that's how
long the propagation delay is.
The astronomical data uses the same calculations as WSJT, do you have
your 6-character grid locator entered in "Settings->General"?
The Q65 Sync spectrum plot should display a sharp spike at the sync tone
frequency of weak Q65 signals. Stronger signals may show a more messy
plot, but they are easily visible on the WF anyway.
73
Bill
G4WJS.
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
4:45 p.m.
New subject: small issues with WSJT-X
Thanks Bob! That article is really a great resource. Especially if the
flattened spectrum is used by the Q65 decoder to possibly increase
sensitivity.
Bill, KB2SA
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:36 PM Bob Atkins <ka1gt(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
Note that I've just updated
https://bobatkins.com/radio/WSJTX_flatten.html with
some new data and observations. I need to further update both that page and
the wide graph optimization page with some Q65 signals from 1296 and 10Ghz.
That will come later.
Flattening in WSJT-XC - Bob Atkins - KA1GT
<https://bobatkins.com/radio/WSJTX_flatten.html>
Flattening the Rx audio spectrum in WSJT-X. There extensive coverage of
the WSJT-X Wide Graph display, which shows a spectral plot and waterfall
display of received signals, Tiy can find that at WSJT-X Wide Graph
(waterfall) optimization.The points covered on this page are also covered
there to some degree, but this page is focused on the effects of the
"flattening" method used for the Wide ...
bobatkins.com
73
Bob, KA1GT
------------------------------
*From:* Moon-net <moon-net-bounces(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> on behalf of
Kurious George via Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, August 12, 2021 11:02 AM
*To:* Bill Somerville <g4wjs(a)classdesign.com>
*Cc:* Moon-net <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
*Subject:* Re: [Moon-Net] small issues with WSJT-X
Hi Bill,
Check this reference to help flatten your spectrum...
http://www.bobatkins.com/radio/wsjtx_wide_graph.html
Be sure you have your exact lat and long entered into Orbitron.
Bill, KB2SA
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 7:56 AM Bill Somerville via Moon-net <
moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> wrote:
On 12/08/2021 15:43, Bill Booth via Moon-net wrote:
I am progressing along fine in getting the new
Q65 mode to work and
have a few contacts, so looks good so far. Just a couple nagging
questions.
I use Dimension 4 for my time clock updater/syncer but the DT is
always 2.x. D4 says sync and usually .004x off
Also I have noticed that the AZ/EL in the Astron Data window is out
maybe 5 degrees sometimes in comparison to my tracking program. In
the WSJT-10 it was always within 1 degree or less. I am using
Orbitron software as it seems to cause less headaches with the SPID.
In the Wide Graph Display, the Q65 sync display at the bottom I have
seen some others captures that it is a straight line with vertical
points where mine is a waveform type display. Cant figure out the
settings to get the line type.
any suggestions welcome .......
--
Bill Booth VE3NXK
Hi Bill,
DT values of the order of 2.4 S are normal for the EME path, that's how
long the propagation delay is.
The astronomical data uses the same calculations as WSJT, do you have
your 6-character grid locator entered in "Settings->General"?
The Q65 Sync spectrum plot should display a sharp spike at the sync tone
frequency of weak Q65 signals. Stronger signals may show a more messy
plot, but they are easily visible on the WF anyway.
73
Bill
G4WJS.
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
5:46 p.m.
New subject: small issues with WSJT-X
Hi Bill
Yes, though 10GHz and Q65-60E may be a special case since it takes up so much audio
bandwidth. Even then the difference in sensitivity is small and only shows up really when
the signals so weak that averaging is needed for a decode. I suspect that on 1296 with
Q65-C there may not be a measurable difference. I have not doe those tests yet. With the
wide signal line 60E (1733Hz plus spreding), the report signal strength is very variable
and depends on the spectrum flatness and where you put the sync tone. Again I suspect the
effect will be much smaller of 1296 with 60C. I've been looking at 10Ghz for the last
week or so and haven't been on 1296 at all. I may switch back soon and see what's
going on there!
73
Bob, KA1GT
________________________________
From: Kurious George <curiousgmonk(a)gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 4:45 PM
To: Bob Atkins <ka1gt(a)hotmail.com>
Cc: Bill Somerville <g4wjs(a)classdesign.com>om>; Moon-net
<moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] small issues with WSJT-X
Thanks Bob! That article is really a great resource. Especially if the flattened spectrum
is used by the Q65 decoder to possibly increase sensitivity.
Bill, KB2SA
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 1:36 PM Bob Atkins
<ka1gt@hotmail.com<mailto:ka1gt@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Note that I've just updated https://bobatkins.com/radio/WSJTX_flatten.html with some
new data and observations. I need to further update both that page and the wide graph
optimization page with some Q65 signals from 1296 and 10Ghz. That will come later.
Flattening in WSJT-XC - Bob Atkins -
KA1GT<https://bobatkins.com/radio/WSJTX_flatten.html>
Flattening the Rx audio spectrum in WSJT-X. There extensive coverage of the WSJT-X Wide
Graph display, which shows a spectral plot and waterfall display of received signals, Tiy
can find that at WSJT-X Wide Graph (waterfall) optimization.The points covered on this
page are also covered there to some degree, but this page is focused on the effects of the
"flattening" method used for the Wide ...
bobatkins.com<http://bobatkins.com>
73
Bob, KA1GT
________________________________
From: Moon-net
<moon-net-bounces@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net-bounces@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
on behalf of Kurious George via Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 11:02 AM
To: Bill Somerville <g4wjs@classdesign.com<mailto:g4wjs@classdesign.com>>
Cc: Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] small issues with WSJT-X
Hi Bill,
Check this reference to help flatten your spectrum...
http://www.bobatkins.com/radio/wsjtx_wide_graph.html
Be sure you have your exact lat and long entered into Orbitron.
Bill, KB2SA
On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 7:56 AM Bill Somerville via Moon-net
<moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>> wrote:
On 12/08/2021 15:43, Bill Booth via Moon-net wrote:
I am progressing along fine in getting the new Q65
mode to work and
have a few contacts, so looks good so far. Just a couple nagging
questions.
I use Dimension 4 for my time clock updater/syncer but the DT is
always 2.x. D4 says sync and usually .004x off
Also I have noticed that the AZ/EL in the Astron Data window is out
maybe 5 degrees sometimes in comparison to my tracking program. In
the WSJT-10 it was always within 1 degree or less. I am using
Orbitron software as it seems to cause less headaches with the SPID.
In the Wide Graph Display, the Q65 sync display at the bottom I have
seen some others captures that it is a straight line with vertical
points where mine is a waveform type display. Cant figure out the
settings to get the line type.
any suggestions welcome .......
--
Bill Booth VE3NXK
Hi Bill,
DT values of the order of 2.4 S are normal for the EME path, that's how
long the propagation delay is.
The astronomical data uses the same calculations as WSJT, do you have
your 6-character grid locator entered in "Settings->General"?
The Q65 Sync spectrum plot should display a sharp spike at the sync tone
frequency of weak Q65 signals. Stronger signals may show a more messy
plot, but they are easily visible on the WF anyway.
73
Bill
G4WJS.
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
13 Aug
13 Aug
12:34 a.m.
New subject: small issues with WSJT-X
Hi Bill
Regarding your last question, there are circumstances where the Q65 sync
plot can look messy even with weak signals.
The shape of your audio passband can be quite important in determining
the 'cleanliness' of the Q65 spectrum. Slope across the passband and
having the LF rolloff too close to the decoding frequency certainly
affect it.
As Bob has noted, the use of 'reference spectrum' as opposed to
'flatten' settings on the waterfall is highly desirable for other
reasons (more sensitive decoding and more realistic signal reports), but
also improves the appearance of the Q65 sync plot.
The above comments are based on a lot of recent work with Q65-60E, and
as Bob notes in his article may apply as much, or at all, with narrower
tone spacing submodes such s Q65-60A, B or C. However, I echo Bob's
comments that in all circumstances it is better to make use of the
reference spectrum capability of WSJT-X.
https://bobatkins.com/radio/WSJTX_flatten.html
73
Charlie G3WDG
On 12/08/2021 16:43, Bill Booth via Moon-net wrote:
I am progressing along fine in getting the new Q65
mode to work and
have a few contacts, so looks good so far. Just a couple nagging
questions.
I use Dimension 4 for my time clock updater/syncer but the DT is
always 2.x. D4 says sync and usually .004x off
Also I have noticed that the AZ/EL in the Astron Data window is out
maybe 5 degrees sometimes in comparison to my tracking program. In
the WSJT-10 it was always within 1 degree or less. I am using
Orbitron software as it seems to cause less headaches with the SPID.
In the Wide Graph Display, the Q65 sync display at the bottom I have
seen some others captures that it is a straight line with vertical
points where mine is a waveform type display. Cant figure out the
settings to get the line type.
any suggestions welcome .......
661
days inactive
743
days old
12 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Bill Booth -
Bill Somerville -
Bob Atkins -
Burt FG8OJ -
Charles -
Don Hawbaker -
Kurious George -
Peter Blair -
Steve Muenich