Some comments about this: The N-connector can serve at 432 Mhz 1500 watt level if it is of good quality and properly assembled. Cables should not be RG-8/U types with PE dielectric. The smaller cables should be RG-225/U or RG-393/U Teflon. The 1/4" semi-rigid cable is suitable for this power level with N-connectors, but much harder to use; can serve as short jumpers between equipment/relays, etc. There are some premium microwave relays that have higher power versions with "high power" N-connectors such as Dowkey 402-A, Relcomm RDL high power, RLC SR-2 high power, the Ducommun high power, etc. Like another gentleman said, these relays use proprietary insulating materials to conduct heat away combined with more rugged conductors. Some of the high power relays can be found with HN connectors which is a step in the right direction at 432 Mhz. HN connectors are easily found for the Teflon coaxes, but much harder to find for heliax. I am planning the rebuilding my feedline system of 7/8" and 1-5/8" heliax lines to terminate in 7-16 DIN females. I plan to connect to these 7-16 DIN males going back to 1/2" heliax, then probably back to HN or N-connectors for rotor loops, antennas, phasing lines, mast preamps, etc. I have an aluminum panel mounted on an interior wall in my shack, the feedlines from towers come in through the exterior wall and terminate at this panel. I am using N-type bulkhead connectors at this time, but am thinking about replacing these with HN. I would like to use 7-16 DIN here but with a very frequent connecting/disconnecting of cables (due to thunderstorms) it would exceed the recommended maximum of make-break cycling for the 7-16 DIN. It is a shame the SC-connector is not more common and less expensive. The older Dynatech D-5 (now Ducommun) relay has SC-females and a very healthy power rating at 432 Mhz. If I could find enough of the different types the SC connector would be my connector of choice. The USSR SR-50-164FV (for RG-8 size cables) is very similar to the type SC connector. New Amphenol SC male connectors for LDF4-50A heliax are available at reasonable prices from a surplus outlet. It is difficult to decide the best course of action with relays and connector types.Byron W5FH
Question for the group. Reference 7/16 DIN to N-Connector adapters. It's understandable that 7/16 DIN Connectors have the ability to more safely handle higher power levels compared to N-connectors with their small diameter center pins. Assuming that is correct, what good does it do to use a 7/16 DIN to N-connector adapters? Seems the proper way to go is change all the N-connections out for 7/16 DIN connections. Or am I missing something?
Butch, KF4HR
On Saturday, July 29, 2017 4:56 AM, "moon-net-request(a)mailman.pe1itr.com" <moon-net-request(a)mailman.pe1itr.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: 7-16 Adapters (Paul Chominski)
2. Re: Moon-net Digest, Vol 324, Issue 11 (Damien FORESTIER)
3. Re: Relcomm Relay for QRO operations on 432Mhz (Edward R Cole)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 22:19:37 -0700
From: "Paul Chominski" <pchomins(a)san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] 7-16 Adapters
To: <pmanfre(a)gmail.com>, <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>, "'Moon
Reflector'" <moon(a)moonbounce.info>
Message-ID: <239CD9745B684806B12F0D338F8F5DEA@Main1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Pete,
I just received 7/16 - N adapters form you . These are realy very good
quality, especially silver plating! Much better what I was getting on Ebay
originating proably from Asia.
TNX, VY 73 Paul WA6PY
On 7/11/2017 1:24 PM, Paul Chominski wrote:
> Hi Pete,
>
> I am interested in
> 4 pcs of 7-16 Male to N-Male
> 6 pcs of 7-16 Female to N-Female.
>
> TNX 73 Paul WA6PY
>
> Paul Chominski
> 17433 Gibraltar Ct
> San Diego, CA 92128-2332
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Chominski [mailto:pchomins@san.rr.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 11:35 PM
> To: Paul Chominski
> Subject: FW: [Moon] 7-16 Adapters
>
> This email was sent from outside of MaxLinear.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Moon [mailto:moon-bounces@moonbounce.info] On Behalf Of Pete
> Manfre
> Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 5:28 PM
> To: moon(a)moonbounce.info
> Subject: [Moon] 7-16 Adapters
>
> *I found a big heavy box of NOS adapters in my basement. I do not need
all of them so I will sell off the excess if anyone could use some.
> These are _/New Never used Suhner and Narda/_ ... some bulk packed and
> some in bags.*
>
>
> I have the following available....
>
> 34 pcs 7-16M to Nm
> 26 pcs 7-16F to Nf
> 12 pcs 7-16 90deg angle M to F
> 8 pcs 7-16 F to Nm
> 9 pcs 7-16 M to M
> 11 pcs 7-16 F to F
> 11 pcs 7-16 M to F (connector saver)
> 1 pcs 7/16 M to Nf
>
> $14.50 each + Shipping,
> buy over 6 ... $13.50 each + shipping buy all 114 pcs $1450 Shipped
> ( preference given to complete lot buy) ( will consider trades on
> complete lot buy)
>
> Thanks for looking,
> Pete WA2ODO
>
>
> --
>
>
>> ++++++CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE++++++
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delete this email from your system.
Dear Ed,
Hams get away with using components beyond their *rated* specifications for
the reasons that I described. I emphasized *rated* to mean published
data-sheet ratings. We hams often disregard these ratings.
You are probably correct about heat sinking. The thermal conductivity of
PTFE insulation is only 0.25 which means that the center pin of a Type N
connector is pretty much on its own. Some manufacturers (Dow-Key in their
"A" relays for example) use a proprietary material with higher thermal
conductivity instead of PTFE to provide higher ratings.
Finally, 7/16 connectors are indeed much more robust than Type N. Finding
affordable QRO relays with 7/16 connectors is nearly impossible, however.
73,
W9IP
From: Edward R Cole [mailto:kl7uw@acsalaska.net]
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 4:27 AM
To: Michael Owen; moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] Relcomm Relay for QRO operations on 432Mhz
Michael,
I'm pretty sure that N-connectors have been used at > 1kW by hams for many
years and operate well if properly constructed. The critical component is
the center pin contact area. Obviously if you can afford 7/16DIN connectors
they are rated higher. But 7/16DIN relays are expensive.
One statement you made does not seem effective. Heat sinking of a relay
will not help cool the center contact in the relay. Low contact resistance
(i.e. low insertion loss) reduces heating of the contact. And never
hot-switching the relay with QRO RF. Most relays have a solid aluminum body
which I've never seen get warm.
I run 1400w at 144 J65B using mainly N-connectors and they rarely even feel
warm to the touch (if in good condition). Early in running QRO I had a
kludge cable running from the amp to the power meter (20-foot run) with a
RG213 to LMR-400 cable using an N-barrel at the junction. The RG213 NM
connector shorted out and burned. Now replaced with single run of LMR-600
with NM connectors. Power dissipation in that run dropped from 135w to 56w.
One exception is the junction of my 120-foot 1-5/8 inch line to a 45-foot
run of LMR-600 from base of the tower to the equipment box (LNA&TR relays)
at top of the tower. That junction has been problematic (mostly due to
water getting into the vertical line). I finally upgraded the junction to
7/16DIN with no more problems. The junction was subject to mechanical
stress when the array was raised or lowered and the bigger connector handles
that better. Two weeks ago I disconnected the 1-5/8 line so it could be
pulled away from the house and the connectors look like new.
I am running about 30-foot of 1-5/8 inch line up my new 6m-eme tower and
will use 7/16DIN at both ends with 7/16DIN/NF adapters. It was much cheaper
to find the 7/16DIN connectors for the AD7A Commscope cable than using
N-connectors. I saved $100 at each end. I could only find crimp-style
7/16DIN connectors for the LMR400 cable at $30 per connector (crimper cost
$99). The adapters only cost me $15. I am using a Narda TR relay that has
NF connectors.
The Harris 1kW PA will eventually get installed at the tower base so only
need a run of RG213 for the 11w drive from the shack (currently have a
70-foot run of 7/8 inch Heliax with PA in the shack).
73, Ed - KL7UW
PS: the $295 RFParts price on the Relcomm is lower than other brands.
Fortunately I go the Narda TR relays NIB on e-bay for $50 (many years ago).
>Michael,
>
>I'm pretty sure that N-connectors have been used
>at > 1kW by hams for many years and operate well
>if properly constructed. The critical component
>is the center pin contact area. Obviously if
>you can afford 7/16DIN connectors they are rated
>higher. But 7/16DIN relays are expensive.
>
>One statement you made does not seem
>effective. Heat sinking of a relay will not
>help cool the center contact in the relay. Low
>contact resistance (i.e. low insertion loss)
>reduces heating of the contact. And never
>hot-switching the relay with QRO RF. Most
>relays have a solid aluminum body which I've never seen get warm.
>
>I run 1400w at 144 J65B using mainly
>N-connectors and they rarely even feel warm to
>the touch (if in good condition). Early in
>running QRO I had a kludge cable running from
>the amp to the power meter (20-foot run) with a
>RG213 to LMR-400 cable using an N-barrel at the
>junction. The RG213 NM connector shorted out
>and burned. Now replaced with single run of
>LMR-600 with NM connectors. Power dissipation
>in that run dropped from 135w to 56w.
>
>One exception is the junction of my 120-foot
>1-5/8 inch line to a 45-foot run of LMR-600 from
>base of the tower to the equipment box (LNA&TR
>relays) at top of the tower. That junction has
>been problematic (mostly due to water getting
>into the vertical line). I finally upgraded the
>junction to 7/16DIN with no more problems. The
>junction was subject to mechanical stress when
>the array was raised or lowered and the bigger
>connector handles that better. Two weeks ago I
>disconnected the 1-5/8 line so it could be
>pulled away from the house and the connectors look like new.
>
>I am running about 30-foot of 1-5/8 inch line up
>my new 6m-eme tower and will use 7/16DIN at both
>ends with 7/16DIN/NF adapters. It was much
>cheaper to find the 7/16DIN connectors for the
>AD7A Commscope cable than using N-connectors. I
>saved $100 at each end. I could only find
>crimp-style 7/16DIN connectors for the LMR400
>cable at $30 per connector (crimper cost
>$99). The adapters only cost me $15. I am
>using a Narda TR relay that has NF connectors.
>
>The Harris 1kW PA will eventually get installed
>at the tower base so only need a run of RG213
>for the 11w drive from the shack (currently
>have a 70-foot run of 7/8 inch Heliax with PA in the shack).
>
>73, Ed - KL7UW
>PS: the $295 RFParts price on the Relcomm is
>lower than other brands. Fortunately I go the
>Narda TR relays NIB on e-bay for $50 (many years ago).
>
>At 03:19 PM 7/28/2017, Michael Owen wrote:
Dear Bill-
I have looked pretty hard and never found a Type
N relay that is *rated* 1kW at 432 MHz. I
suspect that this is partly because Type N
connectors power ratings are barely that high*;
the relay can't be better than its
connectors. That doesn't mean that hams don't
use connectors and relays far beyond their
published ratings... of course we do. Published
ratings, especially from companies that hope to
sell to the military, are based on stringent
testing under the worst combination of bad
conditions. This can include temperature,
vibration, SWR, humidity, etc. Plus a safety
factor of 2X-5X. Hams can get away with
overloading relays because they don't expect them
to work 100% at +85°C (185°F) at 100% humidity
into a 10:1 SWR while vibrating in an airplane at 40,000 feet.
A rating of 550W between 0-1 GHz doesn't
automatically mean that the relay won't
take >550W at <<1GHz. It just means 550W at 1
GHz. For relays, like coax, power handling
increases with decreasing frequency. 1kW at 432
doesn't seem unrealistic to me.
One thing that you can do for relays to enhance
their power-handling is to keep them
cool. Mount "D" coaxial relays (like your
suggested Relcomm) on a heat sink.Â
73,
W9IP
snipped diagram due to size
73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
dubususa(a)gmail.com
Dear all,
we are aware of the situation that the VHF-Database contains some
outdated data. However, as we are not relying on automatic data
updating, the data quality is mainly based on user keeping their own
data up-to-date...
Anyway, I added some additional VHF-Database extracts, which can be
freely downloaded after login at MMMonVHF.de:
EME Listing 50MHz
EME Listing 144MHz
EME Listing 432MHz
EME Listing GHz
Those data extracts are filtered on the respective band activity and
limited to VHF-Database updates within the last 5 years by the user. So,
data entries which have not been updated for the last 5 years are not
extracted. The files are daily updated and can be found in the download
section.
If you need any additional data or extract, just let me know.
73 Ansgar / DG2KBC
MMMONVHF.DE | VHFDX.EU | DG2KBC.DE.EU | DG2KBC.DE
Hi,
Last year I have had fine results with meteor scatter on 432 MHz.
And within 14 days we will have the major shower of the year again.
I would like to make skeds with EME or QRO stations on 432 MHz.
I am especially interested in stations at the distance of 1200 - 1500
kilometer, 9A and YU stations.
In the past YU stations were very active with MS, but it seems they have
lost interest.
Time for a refreshment. Please e-mail me for any proposal.
73, Peter PA2V
Hello Bill,
The RDL-SR012 would be suitable.
Drawing and specifications can be found here :
http://hyper.r-e-f.org/index.php/documents-a-telecharger/viewdownload/10-so…
This part can be found on the web at much lower pricing through other
outlets. Below is one link (please note that this website is not
associated with RelComm Technologies);
https://www.rfparts.com/relays/relays-coaxrelays/rdl-sr012.html
73 - Damien F5RRS
> 1. Re: Relcomm Relay for QRO operations on 432Mhz (Michael Owen)
>
>
>
> Just looking for a suitable relay to switch antennas from LNA/RX to QRO
> TX at 432 Mhz. I am considering the
>
> Relcomm RDL-2N1D4 fail-safe relay. Would this be suitable for a station
> with 800 - 1000 watts out at 432 MHz?
>
>
>
> I am asking because the specs say Average Power handling is 550 Watts. So
> would 1000 watts of JT65 at 1 min on, 1 min
>
> off be within those specs? If not, can some suggest a more suitable relay
> to use? I know that Narda and Radiall have been
>
> mentioned previously, at the same time as Relcomm.
>
>
>
> I will be adding a second lower power isolation relay between this relay
> and the LNA.
>
>
>
> Any comments/suggestions/advice would be appreciated,
>
>
>
> Bill VY2WM
>
>
>
>
Hi Pete,
I just received 7/16 - N adapters form you . These are realy very good
quality, especially silver plating! Much better what I was getting on Ebay
originating proably from Asia.
TNX, VY 73 Paul WA6PY
On 7/11/2017 1:24 PM, Paul Chominski wrote:
> Hi Pete,
>
> I am interested in
> 4 pcs of 7-16 Male to N-Male
> 6 pcs of 7-16 Female to N-Female.
>
> TNX 73 Paul WA6PY
>
> Paul Chominski
> 17433 Gibraltar Ct
> San Diego, CA 92128-2332
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Chominski [mailto:pchomins@san.rr.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 11:35 PM
> To: Paul Chominski
> Subject: FW: [Moon] 7-16 Adapters
>
> This email was sent from outside of MaxLinear.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Moon [mailto:moon-bounces@moonbounce.info] On Behalf Of Pete
> Manfre
> Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 5:28 PM
> To: moon(a)moonbounce.info
> Subject: [Moon] 7-16 Adapters
>
> *I found a big heavy box of NOS adapters in my basement. I do not need
all of them so I will sell off the excess if anyone could use some.
> These are _/New Never used Suhner and Narda/_ ... some bulk packed and
> some in bags.*
>
>
> I have the following available....
>
> 34 pcs 7-16M to Nm
> 26 pcs 7-16F to Nf
> 12 pcs 7-16 90deg angle M to F
> 8 pcs 7-16 F to Nm
> 9 pcs 7-16 M to M
> 11 pcs 7-16 F to F
> 11 pcs 7-16 M to F (connector saver)
> 1 pcs 7/16 M to Nf
>
> $14.50 each + Shipping,
> buy over 6 ... $13.50 each + shipping buy all 114 pcs $1450 Shipped
> ( preference given to complete lot buy) ( will consider trades on
> complete lot buy)
>
> Thanks for looking,
> Pete WA2ODO
>
>
> --
>
>
>> ++++++CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE++++++
>> The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged.
>> This
> email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization
named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized
representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
review, dissemination or copying of this email and its attachments, if any,
or the information contained herein is prohibited. If you have received this
email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and
delete this email from your system.
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> _______________________________________________
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>
--
> ++++++CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE++++++
> The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. This
email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization
named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized
representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
review, dissemination or copying of this email and its attachments, if any,
or the information contained herein is prohibited. If you have received this
email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and
delete this email from your system.
Hello all,
Just looking for a suitable relay to switch antennas from LNA/RX to QRO TX
at 432 Mhz. I am considering the
Relcomm RDL-2N1D4 fail-safe relay. Would this be suitable for a station
with 800 - 1000 watts out at 432 MHz?
I am asking because the specs say Average Power handling is 550 Watts. So
would 1000 watts of JT65 at 1 min on, 1 min
off be within those specs? If not, can some suggest a more suitable relay
to use? I know that Narda and Radiall have been
mentioned previously, at the same time as Relcomm.
I will be adding a second lower power isolation relay between this relay
and the LNA.
Any comments/suggestions/advice would be appreciated,
Bill VY2WM
