Moon-net April 2012

moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com

140 participants
213 discussions

by w3sz

Hi Gerard, I will have moon high enough so that I can get on today at 1940 UTC and thereafter. I can stay on for a few hours; likely until at least 2300 UTC, depending on local conditions. Just let me know what works best for you and I will be there. I won't have internet access once I go out to the dish, but will have internet access until shortly before we would start, and again after the contact is complete. If anyone else would like to try on 10 GHz today, please let me know via email and I will be there. I have 8.5 foot dish with 25 watts at the feed. My Sun Y factor is 13.5 dB and my Moon noise is 1.2-1.3 dB. Thanks in advance, and 73, Roger Rehr W3SZ http://www.nitehawk.com/w3sz On 4/29/2012 7:26 AM, Gerard Geesink wrote: > Hi all, > > My new dish with 3 cm set-up is ready. > 3.7 m solid dish, lin. pol. > Sun noise 16 dB, moon noise 1.95 dB. > 0.8 dB NF, 18 W RF, good own echoes. > If anyone likes to try today, please let me know via mail or on the HB9Q > logger. > > 73, Gerard PA0BAT > _______________________________________________ -- 73, Roger Rehr W3SZ http://www.nitehawk.com/w3sz

11 years, 1 month

EY8ZF The End.

by rene hasper

Last day at the moon in Tajikistan Yesterday it was a hard job for us to get some qso's in the log. We ended with 147 qso's in the log after 2.5 moonpass. This morning after breakfast and before the first rain (its raining a lot here) we did operate at 70cm for a short time and after that we did break down the antennas and packed all equipment, this night we will fly home. We want to say a big thanks to Nodir EY8MM, he was a great host for our activities. The complete antennasetup (incl power dividers and all cables) stays at his station, who knows! new pictures at http://www.ey8mm.com/pictures/view-album/57 qsl via PE1L best 73 Frank and Rene

11 years, 1 month

Weather in HB0-land for today

by dl2sby＠arcor.de

Hi All, it looks not to good for today: http://www.meteocentrale.li/de/europa/liechtenstein/wetter-triesenberg/deta… I think it will be not possible to be QRV today, sorry. 73 HB0/DF1SR

11 years, 1 month

PA0BAT QRV 3 cm

by Gerard Geesink

Hi all, My new dish with 3 cm set-up is ready. 3.7 m solid dish, lin. pol. Sun noise 16 dB, moon noise 1.95 dB. 0.8 dB NF, 18 W RF, good own echoes. If anyone likes to try today, please let me know via mail or on the HB9Q logger. 73, Gerard PA0BAT

11 years, 1 month

23cm & 13cm

by asmag＠libero.it

Hello guys ,i will be on 1296MHz saturday after 14GMT and on 13cm ( Murphy allowing ) sunday , 23cm 3,7m 300W13cm 3,7m 100W tx 2304-2320 rx 2301,9 - 2304 - 2320 -2424 skeed are welcome .73Stefano IK6EIW

11 years, 1 month

Re: [Moon-Net] install advice for 6m and 2m EME arrays

by Lance Collister, W7GJ

Hi Bill, The reason I suggested have the lowest yagi at 1 wavelength (the lowest point to the ground as it is elevated) is based on modeling done by ON4IQ and VE7BQH, which suggested that your ability to accurately aim the antenna at the lower elevation angles is compromised by ground effects wanting to steer the lower yagi beam upward. The comment was not meant to suggest anything about ground gain, per se. Your ground gain with a stacked array will be greater and at lower angle the higher the entire array is in wavelengths above the ground. As you know, when the heights of vertically stacked yagis are significantly different in terms of wavelengths, the pattern is a more "smeared one" that doesn't clearly exhibit multiple high ground gain lobes. This is often the case on HF, and very often also on 6m, where it is not usual for someone to have a single yagi at 1.5 wavelengths and another at 2.5 wavelengths, and is often "deliberately done to lessen the nulls between ground gain lobes". I think in reality, it is often simply the result of mechanical restraints. However, as ON4IQ has demonstrated with his 6m EME array, when you have a stacked array with the center greater than 4.5 wavelengths above the ground, there are in fact very noticeable separate high gain ground gain lobes when the array is aimed on the horizon. But that is a whole different issue and really doesn't apply to your question about the EME arrays. My comments about preamp in the shack are based on the modeling done in WSJT version 4.9.8, where there was an EME calculator. Feel free to do your own analysis, but I concluded that on 6m, if the total feedline loss (including phasing lines) was under 1.0 dB, there was nothing to be gained by trying to move the preamp to the antenna. Most available commercial radios will benefit (about 1 dB in sensitivity) from having a low noise preamp ahead of them in the shack during the optimum times of the month, if you live in a quiet location (which it sounds like you certainly do). An exception to the above rule of thumb is the K3, which will benefit several dB in sensitivity by having a good low noise preamp ahead of it ;-) Remember to use low loss phasing lines, since they can be quite long with big 6m yagis! For example, each of my phasing lines was 2.5 wavelengths long. I used LMR600 to minimize the loss there. And finally, you asked about the rapid Faraday rotation on 6m. Bob previously has done some tests with cross polarized arrays on 6m, so he is more qualified to comment on it than me. Currently, the only person with a cross polarized 6m EME array is NR5M, and I suggest you ask George for his feedback. My personal observation is that sometimes the polarity seems stuck for a long time on 6m (particularly when the Kp=0 and it is night time at both stations), and other times there can be very fast and deep QSB. I wish I had recorded one 6m EME trace that looked like somebody sending 2 second dashes! Obviously, when the QSB is that fast, you cannot easily switch from one polarity to another. However, on 6m, there is so much going on that can scatter the 6m signals - especially when you are aiming lower near the horizon and looking through more ionosphere and the signals are trying to go through it at a very shallow angle - I am not sure that deep QSB is always due to polarity rotation. 6m is a different ball game than 2m! That being said, if you really wanted to cover your bases and be the first on your block to definitively master Faraday on 6m EME, you could always transmit in crossed polarity, and listen in both polarities using the new IQ+dual polarity receiver and let the software continually pick out the best signal, whatever its polarity: http://www.linkrf.ch/IQ+.html To my knowledge, nobody has done this yet on 6m because of the mechanical complexity of properly constructing effective cross polarized arrays with the phasing lines coming out the rear of the yagis. I thought a very nice demonstration of how this needs to be done was documented by NZ5N in his 2m array: http://qsl.net/nz5n/eme4x.htm Of course, pulling it off on 2m and on an array 3 times as large on 6m is a bit more daunting. While it would be cool to be able to automatically watch all incoming polarities, I have opted for the KISS approach, and just tried to maximize my gain in one plane. There is no doubt that this approach has cost me some contacts. However, the extra gain has definitely made me some contacts that I otherwise would have lost. 6m EME is still challenging enough, and the other stations are often so small that an array with 18.5 dBD gain is still not big enough to reliably work the smaller stations...so every dB at this stage still makes a big difference! GL and VY 73, Lance On 4/29/2012 12:21 AM, William Hein wrote: > Thanks for the info, Lance! VERY helpful. > > SPACE.xls - cool! > > I have referred to your excellent Website many times and took a deeo pass through it today. > > The reason for having your lowest 6m EME Yagi at 1 wl is to make best use of ground gain? Are you are saying 1 wl above ground when pointed at the horizon? Or do you mean higher than that - so that reflector on each Yagi is at least 1 wl above ground when elevated? > > I am thinking of getting a very HD (probably special order) crank up tower for the 6m array to make maintenance easier and also keep it low to the ground when not in use (and tied down as you suggest). I have a large prop pitch for elevation but am still thinking about the elevation system. > > I would have about .5-dB loss using the 2.25" Cellflex cable. My two WA2ODO 50-MHz preamps have .09 and .10-dB noise figures. Does the .5-dB higher noise figure incurred by using the preamp(s) in the shack vs at the array mean anything on 6m (assuming best possible lunar conditiions)? > > K6QXY believes the relatively rapid Farady rotation on 50-MHz makes the V-POL elements dispensible given the added complexity they bring, what do you think? I could probably use longer G0KSC designed Yagis if I was only using H-POL and add a bit of gain to the system. > > I will try to be QRV by Sept so I can work you. > > 73 > Bill AA7XT > > > On Apr 28, 2012, at 09:34 , Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote: > >> Hello Bill, >> >> It sounds like a perfect arrangement to me! Since you have other antennas for terrestrial propagation, I would suggest putting the EME arrays as low as possible so you can tie down the cross booms when required during stormy weather. I think the ideal height for the EME arrays is one where the lowest yagi always clears the ground by a wavelength. Both my 2m and 6m EME arrays are lower than that, and the lowest reflector comes down to about 4' or 5' above the ground as it is elevated, so I probably have some ground effect steering the elevation when the moon is low. My 6m array center is at 32' and the 2m array is at 27'. I think it is difficult to tie off the cross boom when the center of the array is higher than about 35'. I would think you would do very well if the 6m array center was 35' and your 2m array center was at 25' (remember I have 16 yagis on 2m, so you will have much more clearance than me). >> >> You can model the clearance of the arrays here: >> >> http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/SPACE.xls >> >> As far as tower spacing is concerned, your probably won't be aiming your 6m array to the south when the azimuth is much under 20 degrees, so you could use that as a guideline, depending on how high you put the 2m array. Other than that, I would suggest that the arrays always clear each other by at least a wavelength on 6m. The towers for my two EME arrays are 100' apart and I clear by about 2 wavelengths on 6m. I have not noticed any problem. >> >> With your low loss coax, you should still have under 0.5 dB loss to the 6m array, which is great! If you can keep the feedline loss under 1.0 dB, you don't need a tower mounted preamp on 6m (it can be inside the shack, which is where most of the 6m EME stations have theirs). >> >> GL and I look forward to working you from ZK2GJ in September ;-) VY 73, Lance >> >> On 4/27/2012 11:30 PM, William Hein wrote: >>> I will be building EME arrays for 6m and 2m this summer. Since I have never built EME arrays before I'd like to crowd source some info here on moon-net before locking down the plans and pouring concrete. >>> >>> I live on 35 acres in a rural area and have a nice, clear horizon looking east towards moonrise - very little ground clutter, no buildings, gently rolling terrain, slightly downhill for several miles. Likewise the shot to the west is also clear but slightly uphill for a several hundred feet before leveling off. Grid square is DM59pa and exact coordinates, if you want to take a peek on Google Maps, is >>> >>> 39.013949 N 39 deg 0 min 52.038 sec-108.744371 W 108 deg 44 min 38.1081 sec >>> >>> I am currently planning on installing the two tower bases on a line extending due north from my shack with the 2m tower approximately 125-feet away from the shack and the 6m tower further north on this line. This way the two arrays will be side-by-side (in other words, element tips pointing at each other) when pointing due east to minimize interaction and also pointed at right angles to my shack during those periods. When the moon is high in the sky the arrays will be aimed well above my shack. (I was told my moonrises will be 90 +/- 30 degrees). >>> >>> I am curious about (a) what height above ground to mount each array and (b) how far apart to separate the two towers from each other. I have other antennas for terrestrially propagated signals on 6m and 2m so these arrays only will be used for EME. I want to make good use of ground gain on moonrise so I imagine tower height is a factor here. On the other hand I don't want to have to build higher than necessary. >>> >>> Current plans are for 4 x 6m X-POL LFA Yagis and 8 x 2m X-POL LFA Yagis. All antennas will be low sidelobe designs from InnovAntennas. Preamps are from Pete WA2ODO, one for each rx polarization on each band. I am still shopping for the high isolation T/R switches. TX feedline will be surplus Cellflex 2-1/4" hardline (also from Pete WA2ODO) which arrived today on 900-lb+ reels! I have Lunar-Link amps for each band and will be using a Flex-5000A as the exciter with a IQ+ V model SDR on 2m for MAP65 (on 6m I'll use the two Flex-5000 receivers for MAP65). >>> >>> 73 >>> Bill AA7XT >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html >>> >> >> -- >> Lance Collister, W7GJ >> (ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ) >> P.O. Box 73 >> Frenchtown, MT 59834-0073 >> USA >> TEL: (406) 626-5728 >> QTH: DN27ub >> URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj >> Windows Messenger: W7GJ(a)hotmail.com >> Skype: lanceW7GJ >> 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 >> >> Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME >> email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web >> page (above)! >> > -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834-0073 USA TEL: (406) 626-5728 QTH: DN27ub URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj Windows Messenger: W7GJ(a)hotmail.com Skype: lanceW7GJ 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web page (above)!

11 years, 1 month

install advice for 6m and 2m EME arrays

by William Hein

I will be building EME arrays for 6m and 2m this summer. Since I have never built EME arrays before I'd like to crowd source some info here on moon-net before locking down the plans and pouring concrete. I live on 35 acres in a rural area and have a nice, clear horizon looking east towards moonrise - very little ground clutter, no buildings, gently rolling terrain, slightly downhill for several miles. Likewise the shot to the west is also clear but slightly uphill for a several hundred feet before leveling off. Grid square is DM59pa and exact coordinates, if you want to take a peek on Google Maps, is 39.013949 N 39 deg 0 min 52.038 sec -108.744371 W 108 deg 44 min 38.1081 sec I am currently planning on installing the two tower bases on a line extending due north from my shack with the 2m tower approximately 125-feet away from the shack and the 6m tower further north on this line. This way the two arrays will be side-by-side (in other words, element tips pointing at each other) when pointing due east to minimize interaction and also pointed at right angles to my shack during those periods. When the moon is high in the sky the arrays will be aimed well above my shack. (I was told my moonrises will be 90 +/- 30 degrees). I am curious about (a) what height above ground to mount each array and (b) how far apart to separate the two towers from each other. I have other antennas for terrestrially propagated signals on 6m and 2m so these arrays only will be used for EME. I want to make good use of ground gain on moonrise so I imagine tower height is a factor here. On the other hand I don't want to have to build higher than necessary. Current plans are for 4 x 6m X-POL LFA Yagis and 8 x 2m X-POL LFA Yagis. All antennas will be low sidelobe designs from InnovAntennas. Preamps are from Pete WA2ODO, one for each rx polarization on each band. I am still shopping for the high isolation T/R switches. TX feedline will be surplus Cellflex 2-1/4" hardline (also from Pete WA2ODO) which arrived today on 900-lb+ reels! I have Lunar-Link amps for each band and will be using a Flex-5000A as the exciter with a IQ+ V model SDR on 2m for MAP65 (on 6m I'll use the two Flex-5000 receivers for MAP65). 73 Bill AA7XT

11 years, 1 month

2M KW for sale

by K1SG＠aol.com

One refrain I've heard a number of times is from EME ops who hear better than they get out...I may have a solution for one of you. Due to various life changes, I've decided not to try to get onto 2M EME, and so I'm offering for sale my 8877 KW+ amp. This was built by the late K1DPP, Don, and it looks like it was built professionally. It does put out every bit of legal power, and does so reliably. I haven't taken pictures yet, but can do so, and will advertise it in the usual places, but I wanted to offer it here first. The RF deck is about 11" tall, and conceivably is shippable, but the power supply is large and monstrously heavy, so a local pickup here in New England would make more sense; I could also bring it to NearFest in Deerfield NH. If interested, get in touch, and we can haggle about price. It is a great amplifier! Steve Gilbert K1SG K1SG(a)AOL.com H. 508-435-9133 Best time to call is between 9AM and 1PM Eastern time

11 years, 1 month

N4PZ QRV 1296.020 1945UTC

by Steve Gross-N4PZ

Worked WB2BYP & VE3KRP. Anyone on???? Life is not a dress rehearsal. La vida no es un ensayo.

11 years, 1 month

EME net notes.

by Steve Gross-N4PZ

Hello All The net is now beginning at 1500 UTC on 14.345 saturday and sunday. Pass this information around please.. Conditions on 20 were poor this morning but with the help of WB2BYP we managed to pull it together. Thanks John. Checkins were as follows. NO EUROPEANS AS USUAL. John forewarded the following to me via email. HB0/DL2SBY EME DXpedition to Liechtenstein will be QRV theis week using the call HB0/DF1SR on 6cm and 9cm. Presently have antenna down due to hurricane force winds. Plan to be QRV as soon as possible. N8CQ Gary is working on control system, and has the 70cm loop feed in the dish in anticipation of activity. Also plans to be QRV on 23cm possibly as soon as next week. K2DH Dave checked in. WB2BYP John will be on 1296 today for the european window. VE3KRP Eddie will be on for the european window also on 1296. WB7QBS Glen was not copiable on 20 meters today. W5LUA Al is reported to be in an opening to Florida from Texas. VE4MA Barry is busy working on power amps for 2304. K0CIY Bill in Okla checked in. N4PZ I will be active on 1296.020 as soon as I have moon today and tomorrow. BEACON I have in operation a beacon on 432.280 pointed southwest from EN52GB. It is 100 watts and the antenna is a cylindrical parabola five feet high and 28 inches wide up 40 feet with a clear view of the SW horizon. The horizontal lobe is very broad and I have reports from EN22 off the side so it should cover a lot of azimuth. It runs from 6AM-9AM and 5PM-10:30PM central time. (1100-1400 and 2100-0330 UTC) It is S2 in Kansas city almost all the time so those of you to my SW please listen and report any reception back to me at n4pz(a)live.com. Soon I will have another one on 1296.280 approximately. It will be 10 watts split between two loop yagis pointed to the SW and SE. I have a tree blockage problem to the east. 73 Steve N4PZ Life is not a dress rehearsal. La vida no es un ensayo.

11 years, 1 month

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Moon-net April 2012